How do you manage to get them to talk?

[LostGal]

No, I am trying to get into a discussion. I have decided that the reasons I'm still here, are--

=memories
=commitment
=duty
=insecurity

I have said "I'm living/looking backwards for my happiness, not forward and that hurts. H, what do you want in this marriage? H, what makes you happy here? H, why do you stay here?"

(D's marriage is next month, then the match begins in earnest. Up until now we were just sparring, and I was getting my thoughts in order and struggling to exist sucessfully. Watch out for air born fertilizer shortly!)

[honeypot]

WB,
If every two weeks isn't netting you any results, then up the pressure. I know I sound like a bully, but I've found with H that I have to get almost mean and then I can back off and turn back into soft and gentle honeypot. He does not and will not respond to my hints and gentle pressure. He has to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the conversation.

I should say all that in the past tense, as that isn't necessary these days. But it was in the beginning.

Food for thought my friend..

Honeypot

[LostGal]

oops...also H, what do you expect from me?...why? because I need to know if I can live with those expectations.

[csw]

Cally ,
As you know, I was the LD in my M. I think that the suggestions above, particularly from HP & GEL, are spot on. The most important thing to consider, IMHO, is timing your talks to maximize the attention, minimize the stress, and avoid the talks in the bedroom altogether. My W would always initiate late at night, and then when I was too tired, and my trace amounts of testosterone were already long gone after the morning swim, I would reject her. If I had a trace of the knowledge then that I have now, things would have promptly changed. If I knew that my rejections were so devastating, I would have seriously taken a hardr look at my reactions. If she had the courage to tell me how strongly she felt about the issue, it would have been a priority in our lives.

So, no matter how you do it, you need to talk to him about your feelings. Eventually, he will get it. If you avoid expressing your feelings in a way that seems attacking or overwhelming, persistently, he may feel safer discussing the issue.

Persistent, safe, and comfortable baby steps are the best bet. Don't scare him or make him think he is completely disfunctional. W would only tell me that our sitch bothered her in the sack, and at that point, the mood is completely shot.

But what do I know??????????

[MJontheMend]

If I knew that my rejections were so devastating, I would have seriously taken a hardr look at my reactions.

Why didn't you know that your reactions were so devastating? When you rejected her did she just smile and say "Okay" but bottle up her resentment or did she have an emotional reaction that you perhaps should have interpreted as "devastation" but chose to ignore or rationalize? If this is the case, I don't know why you are recommending "baby steps" as a good way to approach the issue. It seems to me the thing your W needed to do was come right out and say "I am so unhappy with our sex life, I may choose to end our relationship if things don't improve.".

[cally]

Thank-you Thank-You everyone for your responses! When I first started coming here I felt like there was no hope at all in my marriage. But being here has been a blessing. Other people can relate to what I am going through and that helps. To be able to vent from time to time. One valuable thing I have learned here is making a marriage work IS HARD WORK! But the hard work you put into it can change things around for the better. Another thing I have learned is I am not so perfect in this marriage. I always tend to put everything off on him. I mean I will say I'm sorry if I have done something wrong. But the whole sex drive thing I have blamed the entire thing on him. Ya know like I am sexual and he is not fullfilling that, it's all his fault.

My husband refuses to talk about the sexual issues at all. I mean he will clam up and not say a word. In 7 years he has only said a few things. One being....you have gained weight and it bothers me. I took this VERY offensively. BUT I have lost all of the weight. TWO....He said I am working just fine it is just you. Not sure how to take this, it was a heated argument. Other then that the many many times I have brought it up I could talk for two hours and he would just sit there.

The thing I am afraid of is if I have ruined him EVER talking. I will try the persistence. I really have gotten some great advice. By ruining it I mean I have said some really mean things to him. I know now it is the wrong way to handle it. But sometimes I just seem like I get so angry I can't help myself. I need to work on this. Just this last weekend I thought maybe this weekend we would have sex. Well, Friday night he was waaaay to tired. I didn't get to mad because he worked very very late, as he had to work third shift that night. Then got home and spent the day with me at our children's school for an activity they had. He had never even went to bed. But I thought it was sweet he didn't want to miss out on the kiddos big day at school. But then Saturday came and he had a headache and said he didn't feel good. It really set me off. Because he ONLY has sex on the weekends and even then there's no telling. So I tried talking to him. But when he sat there and ignored me it really started making me mad. I told him I couldn't understand why he was this way. Why he ignored this instead of being a real man and facing the problem. I asked him if he could possibly be gay. I had seen a show talking about gay men so it was on my mind. I told him I was angry and hurt that he couldn't even appologize for disappointing me and even offer a make up day one day this week.

There was even more that I said. But I went about it yet again all wrong I know. He never said sorry. Neither have I and I should. But he has tried in other ways that I may not have looked at before if it wasn't for this board. Like he did all the yeard work, has been cleaning the house while I am at work, making sure all the homework is done with the kiddos. He has cooked a couple awesome meals this week. All not typical of him. But MAYBE in his own way he is saying sorry or trying to make up for his disappointment in the bedroom this past weekend?

I know I have to learn to control my anger and not lash out. I am worried maybe I have ruined it that he will ever talk because of things I have said.

[Greeneyedlass]

Cally,

I absolutely understand the anger & resentment...saying hurtful things when lashing out as you know is never right...but I know sometimes we do that when we're angry.

Try to keep something in mind when you are trying to talk to him.

#1 Do you best to keep you anger in check!
#2 NEVER say hurtful things because you are angry
#3 Don't go on and on and on, if he's not listening just say something like "ok, I can see you don't want to talk about this right now....but WE do need to talk about this, and I'm not going to give up until you talk to me."
#4 When voices get raised people stop listening. If you find your voice is beginning to get a sharp tone to it, or you're getting louder....take a deep breath and control your anger. I know I shut someone out when they start yelling, patronizing, or talking down to me. Once that starts happening....I stop listening and tune them out. You're H probably does the exact same thing....which probably infuriates you....but would you want to listen if someone was yelling at you?

On the up-side, I'm really glad you're looking for signs of how he's trying to communicate with you...that's a really positive step for you

A suggestion for you....I know some people find writing letters good, others not....but if he's not listening to you...try whatever it takes. You might think about sitting down and writing a letter to him. Tell him how his behavior makes you feel (don't put things off on him, just tell him how it affects you...don't blame.) What things that he can do that would make you feel loved (besides just sex) and that you are fighting for your marriage....you love him and don't want to lose what you have. Stuff like that.

If nothing else the letter will help YOU, it will get things you are trying to communicate to him out of your system. Read the letter, make sure you don't have an accusatory or blaming tone to it...make sure it's a loving letter, edit it....make sure it has EVERYTHING you want to say in it. Then if you are so inclined give it to him....if you don't want to give it to him, put it away. If nothing else is accomplished YOU have gotten your thoughts straight in your head for when you try to talk to him again.

This is just an approach that works for me....BTW, I never gave my H the letter I wrote, but it sure did help me figure out what I needed.

I'll be happy to send you what I wrote as an example of what I'm talking about if it would help you....just let me know and I'll give you my e-mail address.

GEL

[honeypot]

Cally,
You gotta get hold of your anger. I'm telling you straight up, girlfriend, that NOTHING will change until you do this.

My H could probably tell you every unkind and emasculating word I ever said to him. I am slowly digging myself out of that pit but he hasn't forgotten.

I understand that the more he stonewalls, the more upset you get and you start saying outrageous things in order to provoke him into saying something, anything, but this tactic will bring you farther away from your goals. STOP saying hurtful things right now. Apologize to him and make a pledge that you will not do it again. And then don't.

As far as how to get him to talk, say it calmly and kindly: I am asking you a question and I will ask it every day until I get an answer.

Stay kind and keep your voice controlled. Make it a safe atmosphere in which he feels he can open up. If a couple weeks go by and he still won't open up, despite your repeated asking, then make an appt with a counselor. And GO. Make it clear that it is marital counseling but you will go by yourself, if need be. Help him to understand that this is a deal breaker for you, in a kind and gentle way.

Turn over a new leaf. You can still draw your line in the sand and maintain your boundaries in a loving way--it doesn't have to be with unkind words that linger and bounce around his brain.

Also, have you read Passionate Marriage? It is a good read and it gave me the tools that I needed in order to learn how to have this dialogue with my husband, in a way that reached him and reached him fast. Prior to that, my thoughts zinged around and there was no coherency and I was unable to convey the sense of urgency that I felt inside.

Good luck,
HP

[MJontheMend]

In 7 years he has only said a few things. One being....you have gained weight and it bothers me. I took this VERY offensively. BUT I have lost all of the weight. TWO....He said I am working just fine it is just you.

Based on my own experience, I would guess the fact that he is blaming you for his LD is 90% of what is making you angry. I'm not saying that you are entirely blameless in the matter but I think your H might need a wake-up reality call in this regard. Next time he blames his LD on you, you might try very calmly, cheerfully saying something like "I guess you're right. I'm just not sexually appealing and there aren't any men who would want to have sex with a woman like me.". You're more likely to destroy his defensive delusion in this way then by arguing that he's wrong.

[cinemanymph]

I have to agree wholeheartedly with HP here. She describes an excellent way to communicate with your spouse no matter what the issue is.