Any hope after divorce? Part deux

[Just_Me]

The last question is easiest. I know exactly what the divorce stuff will say. There is nothing in there except that we've agreed to everything. It doesn't specify what possessions we've agreed on or how to split up financial stuff. We already hashed that out. So there is not much to go over and no need for legal counsel. But I'll hold it for a while and look it over.

Okay in answer to others:

What problems do you think your w sees in this? (Perhaps these are things you've already encountered? or things you're speculating about?)

List some number of them and we'll figure out ACTIONS so that you can show your w that they are not insurmountable.

It's not a great deal of speculation. A) she felt I favored my kids over hers and visa-versa B) She felt my kids were too critical of hers (my s-d has some really significant learning and behavior issues) C) W felt I was too hard on her children. She felt when all the kids were together that her daughter was picked on.

So the actions I've taken: I've accepted her children as they are, taken them into my heart, and accepted a role as dad to them too. We've made reasonable progress. I've tried to be fair with all of the children and made sure to tell my boys to knock it off when ribbing is excessive or out of line. Have included everyone in activities. None of these things so far have made any difference to my W. She does let them stay over which is surprising considering I'm such a beast.

What are the MOST IMPORTANT changes that you've made that you really need to reinforce with w

I was generally angry before in the R. I read books on the subject, took anti-depressants and genuinely feel that those issues are so much improved. I've handled her worst things without getting especially angry.

SEE BELOW

UPDATE:
Well she called as I wrote this. She was once again discussing with the lawyer and wants me to buy her out of the house or at least think about what is fair. I didn't DB. I said I'll think about it and you think about why you want this divorce so bad. We also went back and forth on this and I could tell she was upset. I just wanted her to tell me straight out what she felt she deserved or what was fair.

Then I did more un-DB things and made her tell me what she thought the problems were. She said "you know what they are". I said "I'm not so sure. I need you to tell me." Her response...you have a selective memory. You know the problems. She did finally tell me...as expected...the kids and my anger. Nothing else came up.

The reason she lets the kids come over...I'm on my best behavior. And she says I'm still angry. She said I told her "no one is ever going to want a 40 year old woman with two kids" and that she cried for 3 days about that. I honestly never said that and told her so. I told her repeatedly that I never said that and I'm sorry if she thought I did. I told her that I felt many guys would want her including me. But I did say that I felt she couldn't completely shield her kids from the whole world and that these things would keep occurring again and again with any new relationship. I said that I felt with me they could have a good life.
In an un-DB manner told her I truly believed those issues were being resolved. That I had made those changes. I said that's how I am now...this is me. I said that part of the reason I didn't want this to go so fast is because I wanted there to be time for her to see the changes were permanent. Basically I did everything it says someone shouldn't.

She brought up the girls that were here last night...one in particular. I told her it was innocent but I don't know if she believes it. I do think that indicates a level of jealousy which shouldn't be there if she has no interest in me.

So, tonight clarified that I had the issues correct. That she doesn't feel I've changed. That it is temporary. I also figured out that her apparent anger tonight is at least partially driven by the girls here last night. Since that was totally innocent I am not going to feel bad about it or apologize.

I don't know if I have time to derail this train.

Oh sage, your last question. There is no law school here. The closest is 270 miles. That is what is going to cause the wrench in this works. But I will do a long distance marriage if it is a marriage.

I guess that's enough for now. I just have to keep on with the changes and maybe she'll recognize the changes over time. This sitch seems just like everyone else's. The funny thing is that while we are seeking to change our spouses have to do absolutely nothing. I can think of several major problems my wife had that I'd like to see resolved, but we can't even go there.

Ta ta. Have a good night all. And please give me some insight.

Oh sage, before you say it. I don't know that all the R talk and non-DB stuff was that terrible. She always chased me in this R. It is probably a 180 for me to chase her a bit. Well, I better cut this off.

Wes

[Just_Me]

Hey,

Maybe it would be better to just write say once per week. This rollercoaster thing goes up and down so fast I'm the whole gammit. I don't know from one day to the next if my marriage is over or not.

I will post two small updates:
1) She told me later that she wasn't going to bring up the house thing again. That I had to let her know what was fair. So that sounds like carte blanche to drag this out as long as I want.

2) She called this morning. She was feeling sick...would I bring the kids to school. And if I didn't mind could I bring her a soda to help settle her stomach. The interaction at her apartment was okay. No R talk. I just talked about babysitting her nephew last night. I did at one point sit next to her and rub her back and neck a bit because she looked sickly.

That brings me to now. Have a good day today everyone that reads this. I'm going to. Thanks for being here for me. Sorry I'm such a lousy DBer. he he

[FiatLux]

Hi there, Wes,

No 2 x 4's for you, Buddy. We all backslide now and then. And you can reset your compass now with her comments: Show her that these changes are lasting, and feed her self-esteem with WOA regarding specifics that she has going - beyond mothering.

I don't know that all the R talk and non-DB stuff was that terrible. She always chased me in this R. It is probably a 180 for me to chase her a bit.

Might that include moving 200+ miles to follow her to law school? If so, I wouldn't share that just now, but it is something you'll likely want to consider. Also, in doing so, would you be willing to shed the house (selling it) after you give her half of equity to her?

Hard questions, but you might want to start chewing on these possible directions to better prepare yourself for those potential forks in the road.

Whatcha up to regarding GAL stuff?

Gabriel

[Just_Me]

Might that include moving 200+ miles to follow her to law school?

Honest answer? No. I wouldn't move 200+ miles for her, not right now. I am a partner in a successful practice that is not available where she is, my kids are here, and my wife is a WAW that doesn't even know if she loves me. So no, as things stand now I wouldn't even entertain the possibility of chasing her where she goes. Now if she came back, committed to the marriage, and got back to a loving relationship that could be a possibility. But at this point it seems like the options are between my kids that want to be with me and my wife that doesn't want to be. It's a no brainer for me. Seem callous? I don't think so....part of GAL is not giving up on the one you have for your WAW's benefit.

would you be willing to shed the house (selling it) after you give her half of equity to her

That's no problem. I would sell the house and split the equity...even if I don't follow her to where she's going. Of course, that's partly for my benefit. It's huge and there is just me and part of the time my kids. I don't need this much house. Splitting the equity is fair.

Me

[JohnDad]

Wes, DBing is about us. That being said, please understand you can be a very successful DBer without your marriage being saved. As you now realize, some things we can't control...such as a WAS who had made their mind up to divorce and is pushing it through. I mean, my xw even typed up the decree and other forms herself. By the way, I have been divorced by the wife for the second time now for 4 months yesterday. We were divorced in 3 months from the time she filed and only that long because I delayed. Hang in there. You will be fine.

[HurtPieboy]

JohnDad,

Are you saying, that you have been divorced by the same woman twice?

I certainly don't mean any disrespect by my question.

[huh?]

I am don't have a lot of time right now to read up on your whole stitch. I will do that when I have more time. I am sorry that it looks like the D is coming; however, it also seems that W is pushing it. She is still spending time with you and has not served you the papers. She even is holding off about the house. I think that maybe she isn't so sure about it, I would suggest not bringing it up and just try to keep your interactions pleasant and up beat. I thank you for the help that you have given me and I will try to return the fair as so as I can. Linda

[Just_Me]

Hey all,

Interesting day.

This am: W calls to see if I've walked the dog already. I say yeah but she can again. She stops by, I'm in the tub. Interesting interaction there. She says she's dropped off the D stuff for my review. I say ok and we discuss house sitch briefly. I don't know...there seemed like some sort of flirtatiousness so I asked for a kiss while in the tub and she gave it. Hmmmmmm

I go to church. I call back after that and say the divorce stuff looks ok and hang up. She calls later, but I'm in the midst of brunch and say I'll call back. I go shopping for a bit first then swing by her place rather than call. She's obviously in a bad way. Seems everything conspired against her at once and she's having a bad day. I really felt for her. She started crying and so I hugged to comfort her. We actually layed on the bed for quite a while snuggling and discussing some of her options. At no point did I say coming back to me was an option. She asked why after all that she had said (she said just this a.m.--"we both know I'm not coming back") that I was being nice to her. I said "because I said I was only interested in your happiness and you don't look happy" and kissed her cheek. It never got weird and I didn't sense she didn't want to be in that position. I hung out a little longer then left. She stopped by later to leave the kids....she needed a break.

Tonight: Hung out here for awhile...small talk...then went to dinner...missed the movie we were gonna go to. Then I watch the kids for a bit longer. A hug I tried didn't go over great this time so I should have left it alone. We left good though.

So that's my sitch in a nutshell. The paperwork is done to my satisfaction and I am still willing to sign off on it. If I do will she back out before divorce or will she proceed? I wish I knew. But it is only a piece of paper. It's not over until I quit.

So what does anyone think? Back off a bit? I've pretty much been going with the flow.

[Libra]

Hi - I think she's still on the fence, but either way, you're right that it's not over until you quit. I may not have ever you told you this before, (I'm embarrassed and ashamed by it), but I've been the WAW before. I've been married before. I can tell you that in no way did I ever hug my STXH or heaven forbid kiss him when I'd made my D decision. There were several months when I was on the fence and I tried hard to resist those feelings when they did come. I don't see this in your W. That's not to say that the D won't go through, only that you still have a shot.

I really don't know what advice to give. Have you considered talking to a DB coach? It seems like you might need some expert insight.

Geneva

[Just_Me]

Have you considered talking to a DB coach?

I talked to one several times at the beginning of this. I haven't in quite a while. I still have one more session. The last time we almost exclusively focused on me and GAL. I know I still need to do things to get a life and I don't want to waste the last session on that. But maybe I will go ahead and use the last one. Couldn't hurt. I still think it's preferable DBing before divorce than after. Besides...maybe I just need someone to give me a little focus.

Thank you for your personal WA insight. Nothing to be embarrassed or ashamed of. I think we live and learn and do the best we can do at that point in time. I didn't do anything useful to save my first marriage and look back and think I should have tried something else or tried harder. From reading other posts I felt like she allowed a lot more physical stuff than a lot of other WAWs.

I can't get over the feeling that she really has strong feelings for me but is going to proceed with D anyway. I almost feel like it's because of strenghtening feelings that she wants to be done quicker. I could be wrong but it's more like she is afraid things will be the same so despite how she might feel she wants to avoid coming back. A D would cement that and back me off (or at least that's what I think).

Don't know. Thanks again Geneva

Me