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Hey Tess,

For me the first step wasn't necessarily eliminating them but just relaxing exactly what the expectations were. Then I worked to gradually remove my expectations. Plus think about the good things that have happened that you didn't expect. Being more open to letting good things happen on his terms made it easier too. I could see that being relaxed made a difference around him.

Not sure I'm doing the best job of it but it is getting better.

I know it's frustrating to think you missed some evenings with your H but I think it's great that he told you because it let's you know that he has noticed. He seems to have liked it since it didn't stop him from going to dinner with you and moving in for the kiss.

it's important with this process to remember the main goal - getting the marriage back on track and improving it. When you get caught up in how you think things should be or with wanting to be right, it distracts from the main goal. I use that to help me with reducing expectations. Plus I remember that this is my choice to hold on to the marriage so if I do choose that being "right" is most important, I can do that at any time.

Thanks so much for your support on my thread. I hope to start running again I feel like my thoughts are even more muddled than usual!!




But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
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Hi Tessa,

The expectation thing is really hard. When you've known someone so well and they suddenly stop behaving predictably, it's hard to release your understanding of them.

I'm personally sitting here with dashed expectations, because H had said he'd get here early enough this morning to get the babies up so that I could sleep in. He's not here, and the kids are awake. So again, I've got all the reesponsibility and exhaustion while he sleeps in at his parents' house.

Plus, he had originally told me he wanted to see the kids 5 nights a week and weekends. I said no. Last week I took that back, and gave him free access to the kids, expecting him to be thrilled and eager to be with them. He hasn't asked once for extra time.

My expectations are built on what I previously knew about him, and I still haven't shaken the idea that he would treat us the way he used to. Trying to lower expectations.

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Like there was one day she said she'd contact me that day, and didn't. Had I been my old self, I would've gotten frustrated that she didn't write when she said she would; I'd wonder what's going on; why would she do that; how could she promise to email and then not keep it and get incensed and probably even complain to her about it or bring it up...

But, since I modified my behavior to not need others to meet my expectations, what I felt was this: she didn't write, oh well, that's too bad. Something probably came up. or she didn't get around to it. So what? I'll speak to her another time.

Much calmer, much less thought and attention given to it, no angst whatsoever.

About "lowering" expectations. While that sounds like a step, it's still keeping expectations. Expectations can be not met in two ways: 1. By not having the outcome realized at all and 2. By having the outcome realized but not as expected

So, even with a lowered expectation, the expectation stands the same chance of not being met. But there's more of a reason to get to zero expectations rather than keep them, albeit "lowered".

The question becomes, why do we have expectations, anyway? Isn't it, in essence, a shifting of responsibility from ourselves to another person, thus making them responsible to act according to our picture of what is right and perfect and acceptable? Of course, our own sense of what is idealistic, as I mentioned before, is sure to be met by failure from others, as they think differently than us, will act differently than us, and will do as they see fit, which is perfectly valid for them to do. Additionally, not even we ourselves will always act up to our own expectations, so how can we ever expect others to?

When others fail to live up to our expectations, we tend to place blame. We tend to get frustrated. That frustration leads to depression. A rift is caused that prevents healing. It creates an "I'm right/you're wrong" competition or division in the relationship. It points to a lack in communication. It means you cannot accept your partner for who he or she is. It creates a feeling of insecurity. It creates distrust. It creates a power struggle for control in the relationship. It's a variation of the "my way or the highway" type of thinking.

Lots of good reasons not to have expectations at all. Ask yourself why must things be as per your expectations? Ask yourself why do you believe that your way of thinking is best or better than others? Ask yourself why do you cling to those beliefs? Visualize what the relationship could be like if you were freed from that thinking. Visualize what your relationship would be like if you and your partner were not chained by the other's expectations but were free to grow and each of you could simply be yourselves and how magnificent it can be to love someone and be loved for being yourselves.

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The question becomes, why do we have expectations, anyway? Isn't it, in essence, a shifting of responsibility from ourselves to another person, thus making them responsible to act according to our picture of what is right and perfect and acceptable?

I disagree, it is not always a shifting of responsibility from ourselves to another person. I think that there are fair expectations, what you would expect from someone if they were living up to their responsibilites and then unfair expectations.

Fair expectations for example:
- I'm scheduled to work the 7pm to 7 am shift, that is my responsibility. My expectation is that my shift ends at 7am. But guess what, staffing is short after 7am and at 5:30 in the morning I'm told that I cannot leave, I have to stay and work until 11am. Was it my responsibility to make sure there was coverage for those hours? No. I've met my responsibility, but someone else hasn't and I have to change all of my plans for the day to accomodate them.

Same as, H is suppose to get off work at 5pm. Something comes up and he has to work late. My expectation is that he will be home by 6pm or call to let me know he is working late. It is his responsibility to communicate to me when he has to change plans.

Unfair expectations would be:

I let the gas in my car run down to empty. I expect that H will fill it up for me. -- It is my responsibility so I should expect no one but me to put gas back in it.

I act irresponsibly and let my dog home alone for an extended period of time. I expect that he will not make a mess. That is an unfair expectation because I have not lived up to my responsiblity to make sure he can go outside at reasonable time intervals.

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Having an expection that someone is going to do what they say they are going to do is not shifting responsiblity. However I am responsible for my reaction to them not meeting my expectation.
For example, if someone tells me they are going to do something, like call - I do have an expectation that they will live up to their promise. If they don't call and I am dissappointed, that's fine, there's nothing wrong w/me being dissappointed. The part that would be wrong of me would be to get angry without knowing the circumstances. For example, I have often been dissappointed because H didn't call when he said he would or didn't come home as planned. Knowing that he is a firefighter and drops everything to respond, I just assume that is why he hasn't lived up to my expectations. And it's ok.

I'll continue this later..........gotta go......TJ

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Tess and NYS,

Interesting thoughts on expectations!!

Although I believe that certain expectations are part of a happy healthy marriage, since we're obviously not there I'm lowering/eliminating expectations to get the overall goal I want. I think it's important to define expectations better also. There is nothing wrong with expecting your S to show you love. The confusing part is when I expect to see love in time spent together and H shows it in words of affirmation. I think that's the purpose of reducing or eliminating expectations during DBing - to open ourselves to see more clearly how our S's react to us and to pay attention to their signals without the "filter" of our expectations. By eliminating expectations we can be much more objective about our sitches which helps us react better.

Great topic Tessa. I look forward to hearing more thoughts from you




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Ok, I'm back...........

Of course, our own sense of what is idealistic, as I mentioned before, is sure to be met by failure from others, as they think differently than us, will act differently than us, and will do as they see fit, which is perfectly valid for them to do. Additionally, not even we ourselves will always act up to our own expectations, so how can we ever expect others to?

While I do agree with this if the expectations are unfair, I disagree if the expectations are fair. (see my previous post).

Yes, it is valid for others to think and do things differently from me. It is not valid for them to be rude and disrespectful of me and my time. For example, I have a really good friend, I'll call her Chloe. She and I spend alot of time together. We make plans and go out together frequently. We each have expectations of the other that if something comes up and one of us can't make it, we will call and let the other person know.

-----So there are two expectations there:
Expectation #1. The expectation that we are going out somewhere. If she has to cancel, I am going to be dissappointed. I look forward to going out with her. But I won't be angry at her, even if the only reason is because she is tired. You know what, I haven't lived her life this week, she may very well be extremely tired and just need to have a relaxing evening at home. And that's fine, I'll find something else to do. Or I'll offer to do something nice for her based upon the circumstances of her cancelling. If there's a family emergency, I'll offer to take care of her dog. If she's exhausted, I'll offer to pick us up some take out and drop it off to her, etc...

Expectation #2. The expectation that if she does need to cancel our plans, she will call me and let me know that. That is just common courteousy. Then I'm not sitting somewhere waiting on her and wondering where she is. If I don't receive that call, yes I'm probably going to be angry.

The fact that I expect her to call to cancel and she doesn't has nothing to do with a power struggle in our friendship and everything to do with being respectful and courteous of the other person.

Another example:

My patients have a realistic expectation that I will give them a thorough assessment, administer the right medications at the right time, send them to the right tests, meet their needs as quickly as possible and provide them respectful, courteous care. That is my responsibility as their nurse to meet those expectations. In turn, I have expectations of them. It is their responsiblity to communicate their needs to me. It is their responsiblity to follow instructions that I give them. But I know that I have to keep my expectations reasonable. I can't expect a confused person to understand and follow my instructions. But I do expect those who know where they are and what they are doing to live up to their responsiblities.

Now I'll take this one step further. I expected my H to live up to his responsibilities as a H. I expected him to keep the promises that he made to me. He in turn expected the same from me. Was it too much to ask? No, not from either of us. But neither of us lived up to our responsibilities. So should I say that it shouldn't matter to him because he shouldn't have had expectations of me in the first place? And it shouldn't matter to me because I shouldn't have had expectations of him either?

No it should matter to both of us. Eliminating expectations is not the answer to marital problems. Openly communicating expectations to each other, keeping those expectations reasonable, being honest w/each other when expectations are not being met, and being courteous and respectful of one another are needed to keep a marriage together.

So I argue that reasonable expectations are simply met by others living up to their responsiblities.

On the other hand, unreasonable expectations are just that unreasonable. And those are the expectations that come from one transferring their responsibility to someone else. Those are the expectations that are a result of attempts to control the other person and those are the expectations that result in power struggles in relationships.

Now I'll take this even further. In the aspect of DBing - I do realize that expectations cause problems. And I understand that depending on where one is in the process of DBing it is necessary to eliminate all expectations. However, I still think it is reasonable to expect my H to call at some point in time, whether before or after, if he has to cancel plans. I think it is reasonable to expect him to call if he says he will, or e-mail if he says he will, etc. However, if he doesn't call, e-mail, etc. then it is reasonable of me to feel dissappointed but to give him the benefit of the doubt that there is a good reason why he couldn't. It is not reasonable of me to get angry, emotional, upset, etc. Thus my responsibility is for my reaction to the dissappointment. His responsiblity was to live up to his word.

Finally, about the expectations that I posted about in the first place. I know that I do have unreasonable expectations of my H right now. I also realize that I have had many unreasonable expectations of him through out our marriage. Those are the expectations that I need to eliminate. So I will be making a list of all unreasonable expectations so I can make a conscious effort to eliminate them.

NY - I look forward to hearing from you.... ........TJ

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Although I believe that certain expectations are part of a happy healthy marriage

I completely agree. Reasonable expectations are part of every relationship whether it be between parent-child, siblings, friends, or husband-wife. Expectations are part of every human and non-human interaction. (As in my dog expecting food to be in her bowl at a certain time each day). And in the case of marriages, two people are sharing a life together and for that to succeed there have to be certain reasonable expectations met consistently.

I think it's important to define expectations better also. There is nothing wrong with expecting your S to show you love. The confusing part is when I expect to see love in time spent together and H shows it in words of affirmation.

Exactly. Reasonable expectations become a problem when we do not communicate to each other what we do expect. There are some basic expectations that are based on common courteousy. H will call if he is late. I will not spend the last dollars in the bank account on a purse when H needs to put gas in his truck to get to work. But then there are others that need to be communicated. H doesn't like to eat out and because I am a good cook he expects to have a home cooked meal several times a week. I like to spend quality time w/H, so I expect that we make time for each other each week. (These are real expectations that H and I had of each other that the other did not live up to. Clear communication would have went a long way to helping to make each others expectations reality). He was dissappointed when I didn't live up to his expectations and that dissappointment bred anger and discontentment. I don't think it is wrong of him at all to expect a nice meal at home. If that is something that is important to him, it is reasonable, and I have the ability to make it happen, then I as his wife have a responsibility to meet that expectation. And he in turn has the responsibility to meet my reasonable expectations.

I think that's the purpose of reducing or eliminating expectations during DBing - to open ourselves to see more clearly how our S's react to us and to pay attention to their signals without the "filter" of our expectations. By eliminating expectations we can be much more objective about our sitches which helps us react better.

I never thought of it this way. Yes, all that I have said about expectations in marriage goes out the window when one is in the situation that they are DBing. But I never thought of it as a way to "re-learn" my H and what it is he expects and how he can pleasantly surprise me when my idealistic expectations are eliminated.

Thanks Fearless for the input..........I hope you are running soon...........TJ


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Hey Tessa,

Yes I'm running again. I went for a 16 mile run which felt great Just a relief to get back out there and see that I had not lost any ground in a week.

This whole expectation topic is interesting to me. It would be great to get the opportunity to figure this stuff out with my H some day. Right now I am surprised by how detached I feel. While i don't believe you can have a marriage in this state, there is something freeing about not having ANY expectations of my H. he gets to choose what he wants to do and I'm choosing to be okay with that FOR NOW. I can also choose to push for a decision if I feel like it.

Quote:

But I never thought of it as a way to "re-learn" my H and what it is he expects and how he can pleasantly surprise me when my idealistic expectations are eliminated.





If you are at all like me, it helps to know exactly what you're getting out of eliminating expectations and why it will help you to your ultimate goal.

Tess I think you are giving some good advice. I had forgotten how rough things were for you at the beginning because you've had some great interactions recently. Man, I would kill for a kiss right now I'm so jealous of your "date" with H last week!!

have a great week




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I wasn't going to post again tonight, but here I am.

I wish I was feeling more detached. The positives that have been happening lately are wonderful, I love them. But it's really interfering w/my ability to detach. At one point in time I wasn't even sure if I still loved my H. It's like I had been hurt and I wasn't getting anything that I needed from him and I was beginning to get worried that I didn't love him anymore. But once he started being affectionate w/me again, all those feelings of love just came rushing back. It's not really a good thing because I'm not at all detaching. I definately do not want to overwhelm him and scare him away.

This is a confusing time for me. In the beginning, the rules were clear. Basically leave him alone. But now I'm at the point where I feel that I need to feed his affection and show him that I can meet his needs. So I'm trying to balance being loving, kind and open w/not pressuring him or pursueing him.

I had forgotten how rough things were for you at the beginning because you've had some great interactions recently. Man, I would kill for a kiss right now I'm so jealous of your "date" with H last week!!

Thanks Fearless for reminding me. I had forgotten too how things had been. I was having a difficult time seeing the progress because I forgot where I came from.

Fearless dear, you will get your kiss -- when you do, enjoy it in the moment........I'm pulling for ya girl...
TJ

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TJ,

You will figure this out. I can imagine balancing detaching and just being happy to be with your H is difficult. I'm not sure you really need to detach with the attention you are getting from your H. Just keep remembering to give him space and take your time and I think you are going to do a great job. I am so impressed by the way you've handled things. keep it up!

Oh and I will get a kiss one way or another





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