Fearless - thank you for the reference to thesane1's thread - it helps to hear success stories.
Update -
Yesterday H called me twice and both times I missed his call. I did call him back after the second one. Again, conversation just doesn't flow very well. I do ask him questions about himself, generic questions, nothing to do with his feelings or what he thinks out OR, etc. But I still find myself carrying most of the conversation. I miss how we used to talk. In the beginning of our R, we would talk for hours. Then somewhere along the way that stopped. I guess for now, I just need to stop trying to make small talk to carry the conversation and just let the silence happen. Maybe if I shut my mouth, he will say more.
Today H stopped in unannouced to mow the grass. But before he started he came inside for a few minutes. He seemed distant today. We talked for a few minutes. Sometimes he makes references to future plans that indirectly include me. And I just want to say to him - What is up, where is this going - but that's like a temperature check, right? I know I can't do that - so I bite my tongue. My poor tongue has been bitten a lot today. I bit back, "just for you to come home" as my reply when he asked me what do I want for my birthdy. And other things I can't remember at the moment.
After he came back inside we met on the stairs (he had been coming up to tell me he was leaving). He ended up hugging me and for several minutes he just stared into my eyes and he would start to move his lips as if to say something and then he would stop. He was so deep in thought that he almost jumped out of his skin when the dog started barking. If he was going to say something, he didn't get to because my brother was at the front door. So now I'm left wondering what it might have been that he was thinking about saying but not able too.
It is so hard not asking him what it was he was thinking about. Sometimes I feel like he does love me, just by the way he looks at me. I know I have to keep giving him space and not ask any questions.
So given that H is calling me and dropping in unannounced, would extending an invitation to him to do something together be ok, or shoud I wait and see if he invites me to do anything?
I was thinking of inviting him over for a nice dinner w/my best girlfriend and her boyfriend. This dinner couldn't take place until the end of May or beginning of June. So I could wait a few weeks and see how things are going.
I find myself not doing as well at detaching as I think I had been several weeks ago. H showing interest in me is building up my hopes and that worries me. I think I'm doing a pretty good job of GAL. As far as PMA - I'm still working on building confidence but my outlook on life is much brighter. But I know that if H again told me he was "done", or if he came and took the rest of his belongings, or opened his own checking account, or filed for D, I'm afraid I would fall apart again. So I guess I have some more work to do to detach............
I'm afraid I messed up today. I have been feeling really sad since yesterday evening. I just miss my H so very much. I really wanted him to come home last night. I want that all the time, but last night the feeling was overwhelming. And it's still there today. I feel like he is moving on with his life and just tossing me aside like an old pair of shoes that he outgrew. Well unfortunately, I called him today. And I told him that I was getting tired of being patient and that I was tired of sharing him and that I was tired of being nice about the whole situation. He grabbed onto the part of the statement about "tired of being nice" and he replied - "Oh, so your tired of being nice". He told me over a month ago that he thought it was just an act. So now I just said something that verifies that in his mind. I also told him that if another offer comes along I may not turn it down. Sometimes I think that I do deserve better but then I do l love him and want to be with him.
So in this conversation, after I said how I was feeling, his response to me was "I know how you feel". Then he went on to tell me how he wanted to establish a friendship with me and he felt that we were indeed building a friendship. I validated that statement and said, yeah, we have to have some sort of friendship started because we're having this conversation and both of us are staying calm. He answered yes, it was good that we were talking and no one was getting upset or angry. So I ended the conversation by taking responsibility for my feelings and telling him it was my problem because I just wanted too much too fast. Then I thanked him for listening.
A little later I just wanted to hear his voice again. So I called him again. I thought he would have been irritated with me for calling a second time, but his voice had a very pleasant tone to it. His cell phone has caller id, so he knew it was me. In the past during our really awful months, I could here in his voice that he didn't want to talk to me just with the word hello. So I told him that I was sorry for the earlier call and I didn't want to ruin his day. He said "that's ok, your not ruining my day". I then told him, well I don't want to mess up anything good we have started. He replied, "well how about this, I'll tell you if your messing up". I told him he shouln't have to do that and he laughed a little bit. Then I did go on to clarify what I meant by nice in the earlier conversation. I told him that it wasn't that I was tired of being a nice person, as being a nice person was just getting back to being me but I was tired of being nice in regards to the situation that we were in. I know - it was still a bad thing to talk about. He did acknowledge that he understood. That was it, he ended the conversation quickly. He was at work and had a call to respond to (he's a firefighter).
So I don't know what to think. I know it's a good thing that he wants to establish a friendship first. And he did say that he felt we were doing just that. He also said that he felt things between us have improved alot. Which I agree with him. But he's still not home and I am pretty sure he's still communicating w/the OW. That's the part that really gets to me, why he would still communicate with her after admitting to me that he realized she was the reason for our current problems. (I know she is not what made my marriage begin to crumble but she is standing in the way of H committing to work on OR and coming back home). Sometimes, I'm just scared that he is never coming back.
So beings that he replied to my conversation with kindness and patience and didn't get angry and upset as he used too, could it be possible that I didn't mess up too bad? That maybe we have only taken a step or two backwards but we haven't taken a giant leap back?
So I don't know what to think. I know it's a good thing that he wants to establish a friendship first. And he did say that he felt we were doing just that. He also said that he felt things between us have improved alot. Which I agree with him. But he's still not home and I am pretty sure he's still communicating w/the OW. That's the part that really gets to me, why he would still communicate with her after admitting to me that he realized she was the reason for our current problems.
No she's not. This is still a matter of being your H's decision. Being with the OW is still preferable to him. This has to do with feelings, not logic. Don't try to find the reason why he should or shouldn't. Instead, present him with the reasons by NOT backsliding, by NOT sending messages that you being nice may just be an act, and stop dwelling on negative thoughts to help stop being a sad sack that he won't want to be around.
Look at the positives! He wants to be a friend and build a friendship! If that's really the case, you've got a foot in the door. Use it WISELY!!!!!!
Sometimes, I'm just scared that he is never coming back.
And before all this happened, you used to think he'd never leave and so did he. Goes to show you shouldn't think things will always be the way they are now. Things can and do change.
So beings that he replied to my conversation with kindness and patience and didn't get angry and upset as he used too, could it be possible that I didn't mess up too bad?
I'll mention this again. We seem to think our actions have a negligible effect on others, if at all, but that's not true. His being gracious and patient doesn't reflect that you hardly slipped necessarily, it reflects the depth of his ability to be gracious and understanding.
My ex was the same way. In her case, she was understanding because it had been done to her once, and she was devastated by him, but the person leaving her cared, and acted understanding in this way to her. But we don't want sympathy and pity and hand holding, we want them back. So we stop backsliding and stay on track with the DB plan.
I was tired of being nice in regards to the situation that we were in. I know - it was still a bad thing to talk about. He did acknowledge that he understood.
The message that sends me, even though I understand how you feel too, is that you don't have enough patience to bear up with things now that you're the one that's hurting. Things take time, sweetie, and patience is needed.
Once again NY, you have opened my eyes and showed me that I am wallowing in self-pity and need to STOP!
I'll mention this again. We seem to think our actions have a negligible effect on others, if at all, but that's not true.
Forgive me as sometimes I need to be told things several times. Not to be arrogant, but I am an intelligent person, I just have a thick skull so some things don't sink in on the first try.
I need to let go of the OW. I still have a lot of feelings of anger towards her and I know that it is doing nothing but hurting me. I need to get over it!!
Another big problem for me right now is the fact that I am continueing the same old behavior of focusing on the negative. That old behavior definately caused problems in my marriage and in my career which then spilled over into my marriage. Focusing on the negative only triggers the doubts and fears that then lead to whiny, clingy, it's all about me behavior. As well as checking up on him and obsessing over what he is doing.
So I think I need to hold onto the positives. H wants to establish a friendship and we are enjoying each other's company and getting along well when we are together. I need to take it for what it is and be happy with it. (NY, that's what you've been trying to get me to understand, isn't it?)
After writing out my previous post and reading the reply and allowing time for things to sink in, I think I have come up with a plan to improve myself. I know that I think about this whole situation way too much. I know the rules and I know what things I need to do and what things I need to stay away from. It's time to stop thinking and just let my actions speak for me.
My plan is to put as much effort into GAL as I have been putting into analyzing the situation. I am looking at some things to do to take care of me. Things to improve myself physically. Some of it will be noticeable quickly. While others, like going to the gym/walking dog/eating healthy won't be noticeable as quickly but will improve how I feel about myself.
I am feeling better now. I know it sounds like I'm ungrateful for the things I do have. I'm really not, I just get down sometimes and I find it helpful to vent here. Because then I get constructive feedback that I can process.
Quote: Another big problem for me right now is the fact that I am continueing the same old behavior of focusing on the negative. That old behavior definately caused problems in my marriage and in my career which then spilled over into my marriage. Focusing on the negative only triggers the doubts and fears that then lead to whiny, clingy, it's all about me behavior. As well as checking up on him and obsessing over what he is doing.
Many of us walk this path - my saviour was Sage's idea of listing positives everyday on my thread. It helped me re-wire my thinking so I was looking for positives, and forgot about the negative-hunting habit.
Quote: My plan is to put as much effort into GAL as I have been putting into analyzing the situation. I am looking at some things to do to take care of me. Things to improve myself physically. Some of it will be noticeable quickly. While others, like going to the gym/walking dog/eating healthy won't be noticeable as quickly but will improve how I feel about myself.
Great idea!! You really are doing a good job. Yes, you can get better and YOU WILL:)
Here's a quote that really started me down the right path
Quote: Finish each day and be done with it. You have done what you could; some blunders and absurdities have crept in; forget them as soon as you can. Tomorrow is a new day; you shall begin it serenely and with too high a spirit to be encumbered with your old nonsense. Ralph Waldo Emerson
It's taken a long time (I had this quote hung up all of my house and office in the fall) but I've finally applied it to my life. In fact I use it to remind me that even a wrong sentence is already out of my mouth BUT I refuse to let myself go down the wrong path even further. If that makes any sense:) I've had a rough couple of days so I'm not as coherent as I should be!
NYS has a great way of getting to the heart of the issues. I've been trying to take his advice too. The key for me is to think about the results I want and how my words or actions are going to contribute to that result. Which means there's lots to think about in our conversations.
Hang in there
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Many of us walk this path - my saviour was Sage's idea of listing positives everyday on my thread. It helped me re-wire my thinking so I was looking for positives, and forgot about the negative-hunting habit.
Thank you Slowly! I find this a very good idea. I am going to try this.
So far I have not called or sent H a text message. The worst part of the day is yet to come (evening). So to avoid doing this:
Call my friend - already called once but she must still be sleeping (works nightshift) so I'll try again later
Walk my dog - but I will have to make sure my route does not take me by where H is staying
Paint, paint, paint - I have to get this kitchen done by Memorial day weekend.
Finish paper work and pay bills (paying bills has been hard because it makes me think of H. But instead of thinking about the negative thougths about how we are seperated, I will think only about the positive fact that H wants to continue keeping a joint account and contributing 100% to paying the bills.)
If any of that doesn't work - I will stop any negative thoughts that he is w/OW and replace them with thoughts that maybe he is once again doing something w/one of his guy friends. (that is what he has done the last several Friday evenings he hasn't been at work - I know that because he volunteered the information).
So to put me in the right mindset to get through this evening without getting sucked into negative thoughts, I'll list the postives:
H has been calling and/or stopping in several times a week. H has again told me that he wants to establish a friendship with me. H told me that he felt we were currently building that friendship. H told me that he feels that things between us have improved alot. H started instant messaging me on the computer last night. He chatted with me for quite some time.
I am also working on my PMA. Today I:
Scheduled an appointment for a haircut w/highlights Scheduled a massage (H gave me a gift cert. for Christmas and I haven't used it yet) Completed several items on my "procrastination list". Procrastinating is a huge problem for me, so seeing the list get smaller and not adding anymore to it, is making me feel alot better
And next week I have more things I can do
So my goal is to get through this evening without initiating contact to H!!!
I'm thinking about starting to wear my engagement ring again to have a visual to remind me what my DBing efforts are for so that I stick to them without fail. H has my wedding band. He found it after I threw it at him out of anger and put it on his key ring w/his band. That's were they both have stayed. It's weird......but not worth wondering about.
Just gotta get through this evening....One day at a time, and tomorrow's another day. TJ
I am my own worst enemy. It hasn't been but maybe an hour since I just wrote all of that about not calling H. And, yes I called him. I told him I was just calling to say "hi" and to see how his day was. He said it was a hard day and he was tired. Then we started talking about finances as today was payday. I told him that in a few weeks I could pay all the bills and he wouldn't need to contribute to it anymore. He just said "oh". I have to stop talking about that. It is so stupid of me. We have not seperated our finances yet and he is no hurry to do so, but I'm the one that keeps bringing it up. I know I do it just to get reassurance that he hasn't been thinking about doing it. I know it has to stop!!!! No excuses!
So I ended the conversation by telling him I was going to get something to eat and offering to get something for him and drop it off. He declined the offer as he ate a very late lunch. Then I pleasantly ended the conversation with, Ok, I'll talk to you next time. It was a total of 6 minutes.
Maybe I'm being to strict with myself. In the beginning, right after I read DR, I knew that calling him was a bad idea because he wanted me to just leave him alone. But now I am beginning to think that the action of calling him is not a bad thing if I stick to a few rules. 1. I do not make a habit of calling everyday but keep the frequency to no more than twice/week. 2. Keep the phone calls friendly and pleasant. 3. Avoid talking about certain issues - OR, OW, and the seperating of finances (if he's not bringing it up, why should I) 4. Keep the calls short - I end the call before he has the opportunity too. 5. Be considerate of the time of day that I am calling. 6. Remember that right now my H is just my friend and I need to treat him as just that - a friend.
I think that I can show him a behavior change. Previously I always called him because I was feeling needy and it was very evident. By calling once in a while and being friendly and pleasant I can start showing him the person he wants to be with. Any thoughts? TJ
Any thoughts? Yes. Have you thought about disconnecting your phone?
You call him just to say hi and end up with your foot in your mouth and volunteering to run over with food. What exactly is the behavior change here that you want to demonstrate over the phone, you see? Give him time and space. You're coming across as anxious. If you don't call him, that would be a significant change in behavior, would it not?
Are you just talking because you're nervous and an awkward silence compels you to fill it by speaking and that's when you say things you regret?
I'm not saying never ever call him. But if you call him twice a week, he'll never have to initiate contact with you 'cause you're doing it for him. Pull back a bit on this. If you run a campaign of two phones calls a week and become a nuisance, he's going to screen the calls. Instead of trying to come up reasons twice a week to call him, think instead in terms of an occasion here or there that warrants contact. Then think about what you're going to say and what you're going to do during that contact, and what you're not going to do or say, and what your goals are. And stay on track.
Instead of relying on phone calls, make those contacts opportunities for the two of you to catch up face to face, like friends do, and have them in a pleasant social setting, may I suggest, lunch dates?
Rough day and evening? I understand how you're feeling but NYS is right. YOu do need to pull back some. It is a first step that you're not calling because you feel needy but now now you're calling because you feel anxious. Plus look at the results you seem to get from these calls.
i told jirm earlier today - it seems so hard to pull back at all because we feel that the distance will drive them further away but I don't believe that is necessarily true. I think giving them some space can allow them the time to think about what's going on in their lives. The time apart isn't making you feel any less in love with your H is it?
Remember too that no matter how bad your sitch seems, there are others out here that would consider it a step (or a couple of steps:)) above their sitches. I onlt say that because I know how wrapped up we all feel in the drama of our sitches. I try to remind myself how lucky I truly am in the big picture and it helps me reduce my anxiety considerably. It doesn't mean I'm not going through a hard time but I am so thankful for all the good in my life too.
You sound a lot like me in that you put a lot of pressure on yourself and you want things to start getting better quickly. This is going to take some time - just try to stay focused on what drives positive behaviour from from your H and what doesn't. Remember - if it's not working - stop doing it!!
By the way, how was your first week of work? Was the computer training okay?
The haircut and highlights and massage appts sound great:) I'm thinking about highlights too but since summer is pretty much here and I don't have a job yet:) I may just see what the sun will do for me!
Well enough girl talk
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Slowly