I've been lurking and watching your story unfold with great apprehension. But you seem to continue to amaze me with your resilience and commitment to moving forward. Thanks for the boost in faith!
S's words on what he wants is positive, isn't it? I guess it's now up to him on making those words turn into actions. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.
Quote: I’ve always said that S. says he wants a family but acts like a single man. I wish he had a close friend who wasn’t (a) 20, (b) a misanthrope, (c) a “guy’s guy” (d) someone with whom he’s had an affair.
After I had myself a good chuckle on the misanthrope thing (I don't know why, but that description really tickled my funny bone), I realized something. Have you come right out and expressed this wish to him, Jennifer?
Because if it is truthful, it might be positive to get the T's feedback on his choices for a support network. Not one of the items in that food group is good for him on a long term basis... I don't think you're being unreasonable for wanting at least SOMEONE responsible and mature to be in his inner circle of friends.
But, that's just my opinion, FWIW.
Big hugs to you, special one (not hard enough to squeeze your growing abdomen ).
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
I’m having a low day. I’m realizing that S. is pushing me away with every moment he doesn’t address this SM thing with me, and I’m feeling like I’m detaching at a rate that will soon make it impossible for me to live with him. I feel controlled, because every time I mention perhaps not living together, S. freaks out (to the extent that he ever does, which is a slight elevation in speaking voice and wider pupils, not much else) and I feel like I have no other option but to live with him. On the other hand, he doesn’t seem to want to face this issue with me, and upon re-reading Shirley Glass I’m afraid he won’t until it’s too late and I’ve detached permanently. And I’m paralyzed about this – I really and truly don’t know what to do. Detaching on demand isn’t working for me, because he is living in my house while he works on his and is around all the time when I’m not working.
Yesterday, I was having fantasies about calling up an old flame – now, mind you, I KNOW what this is about, and I wouldn’t DO it, but just fantasizing about it was a bit of a wake-up call for me – a man who has a daughter from a previous M and who was hot to have more children… this fantasy right before I went to sleep last night and had a horrible, stressful dream that SM was visiting S. and me (they had not seen each other since they’d been together in Switz) and I was watching their every move for some sign of secret intimacy, twisting myself into a pretzel to make sure I was always in the room with them, etc. I drove myself absolutely crazy (not too far off from reality). I woke up in a horrible mood, no doubt fueled by the Daily Snoop, Late Edition’s revelation that SM had written him back a few days ago and that he had picked up her message right before dinner last night but had said nothing.
Granted, her message was short and did not address the Drama Queen entreaties of his message to her. It basically responded to the one line saying he hoped she wasn’t working too hard with a simple:
[S.], I am working very hard but am getting used to the system here. Glad to hear you’re OK. Just don’t do much traveling these days, OK? :-) [SM]
Now, many of you might think this is a GOOD thing, and granted, it is… in a way. However, this is not her typical "Oh, I'm thinking about you, too" response; on the contrary, it's JUST the type of non-engagement with dramatic overtures that makes S. come running, terrified to lose someone, and I worry (albeit against my will) that he’ll get the same bug that bit him when he was with her and I was non-engaging, and fly right into her web.
Ellie, H2H, and others remind me that detachment was What’s Working before. I just don’t understand how to do it while in such close proximity. I’ve tried to cut down on instigating affection, but he comes to me and cranes his neck all out of proportion to get a kiss, and if it’s too perfunctory, he comes in with his eyes open for another, just to be sure. I’ve tried to be Just the Facts, Ma’am, but he just becomes sullen and cranky (like this morning when we woke up).
On a hopeful note, we decided not to go to VT this w-e, even though Monday is S.’s birthday and his mother’s was last w-e and he wanted very much to go. We stayed home because I am swamped with work - not to mention exhausted from traveling to VT right before GA and then GA - and we’ll go next w-e. This will give me some time around the house (the boys are away, yay!) to relax after a lot of traveling, be with myself, get a lot of work done, and try to stay centered and focused.
Betsey, thanks for the encouragement. I do so need it during these times. I don't know if bringing up how inappropriate I think his friends are will bring more trust into our R or less. My guess is that he'll see me once again as someone who "doesn't understand" him, who "can't see" him and who doesn't know who he is. I am, on the other hand, trying to encourage the friendships that I see as positive influences - one of his colleagues' W just found out she is pregnant, and they invited us to a 4th of July BBQ while I was away. Thank god, is all I can say - an actual, 30- and 40-something couple, married and thrilled about having a baby together! She is due three months after I am. I haven't met them yet, but given the gene pool, they sound divine!
Quote: Ellie, H2H, and others remind me that detachment was What’s Working before. I just don’t understand how to do it while in such close proximity. I’ve tried to cut down on instigating affection, but he comes to me and cranes his neck all out of proportion to get a kiss, and if it’s too perfunctory, he comes in with his eyes open for another, just to be sure. I’ve tried to be Just the Facts, Ma’am, but he just becomes sullen and cranky (like this morning when we woke up).
I'm not sure you're interpreting us right, J. Yes, I did suggest that withdrawal was what worked before - but that was "moving on" withdrawal, not "I'm here but I'm not going to be happy or affectionate with you" withdrawal - I think that's a bad tactic, because it just plays into his fear that you'll never forgive him and he can never make you happy.
I say, bring Swiss Miss up in your next therapy session, and do not allow it to get derailed this time. No need to let him know you snooped, just time to insist that he inform her that he's having a baby with you, and do it in front of you, so you can read what he writes. It's not an unreasionable request if he wants you to move in with him.
Meanwhile - let go and just try to have some fun. Enjoy that life growing inside of you, the sunshine, all the good things in life.
Ellie, I guess it's hard not to "be here" when I "am here!" He's living at my house. I don't want to make an ugly scene and ask him to move out, causing conflict; I just don't know how to detach and "move on" when we have to be together to raise the child. He wants to be as involved as he possibly can, and my own values won't allow me to simply go away and "allow visitation."
I guess I'm having a really hard time seeing what my options are, given his insistence to be involved and my feeling that if he wants to be, he has that right, whether or not we are together in a romantic R.
I am a real supporter of paternal rights, and I won't deny him those rights just because the law says I can. See where I'm stuck? Am I still not understanding you?
I just wanted you to know that I'm following your sitch attentively and wish I had some good suggestions. I can really relate to the difficulties of going darkish when there is so much inbuilt connection (as parents or future parents). I can also identify with the old flame fantasies.
I trust that you will soon find a way through this. It seems to me that you always do.
Bon courage, Wendy
Me: 51 H: 52 T: 23 yrs M: 19 yrs S18, D16, S14 (special needs) PA: 2003/2004 Piecing: 2004 on Suspect H had EA: 8/2012-12/2012
Quote: I am a real supporter of paternal rights, and I won't deny him those rights just because the law says I can.
Funny you should mention that, because so am I.
Those rights don't come from a law, Jennifer. They are attendant on the paternal responsibilities. S needs to "step up to the plate." Have you heard the saying, "The best thing a man can do for his children is love their mother?"
For whatever reason, S is not showing that love to you now. What love is there without respect? How do his actions regarding SM show respect for your feelings? Forget about the snooping. If you knew only what he believes you know, in what way would that situation demonstrate that he respects your perfectly valid feelings about SM and about his commitment to you and your daughter?
No one has a stronger belief in paternal rights than I do. But in my view, fatherhood is an honor, not a right granted by some legislation. From what I read in your thread these days, S is not acting in an honorable manner.
I hope this isn't coming across as whacks. I think I understand a little of what it might feel like to see your expected parenting partner failing to act in your child's best interest. Even if I miss that, I do understand that this is agonizing for you right now. You're a strong woman and we all know you will choose what you believe is best for your child.
Prayers and hugs,
K
My sitch More importantly, Light A Million Candles
Yesterday, everything was wonderful because he stated his desire to work things out and be happy with you. Today, you forsook the NY Times for the Daily Snoop and everything is awful. Your brain (with a little help from some hormones?) is trying to kill you.
Detaching isn't about distancing. Think differentiation. Not taking things personally. Loving detachment.
Do the things you can do (did you get legal advice yet?) and let go of the rest. Do some more meditative yoga. Peaceful, happy vibes.
I've never been a big fan of parental (not a typo) rights. The implication is that kids are property. I think parental responsibility is a much bigger issue. You never see anybody drag their butt into court demanding to be allowed to pay doctor bills and stay home with a sick kid and on and on.
Okay, enough rant. Back to peaceful, happy vibes...
Quote: I've never been a big fan of parental (not a typo) rights. The implication is that kids are property. I think parental responsibility is a much bigger issue. You never see anybody drag their butt into court demanding to be allowed to pay doctor bills and stay home with a sick kid and on and on.
SD, you made me laugh!
How right you are. The fact that these "rights" are sometmes (in some countries) not linked to fulfilling any parental responsibility stinks.
Jennifer, I haven't kept up with your situation in 100% detail, but I have to say the whole thing about S's behaviour gives me very bad vibes. Swinging from not wanting the child at all to then demanding his parental rights smells fishy. What person in a committed relationship would need to demand his parental rights?
It has taken me a very long time to see my H for the kind of person he is, a very long time. If I had understood things at the start, I would have run for the hills.
Is S ever likely to turn into a stable, honest, committed, cherishing kind of guy? Has he displayed any of these qualities since you have known him? If not, then how will the future be any different?
Please excuse the blunt nature of this post. I may have overlooked something or got the wrong end of the stick. But I can tell you, that wishful thinking never got anyone anywhere, and I can see a whole lot of red flags in your situation. And you are just at the beginning of this journey as a parent to your child.
Another thing - folk usually need therapy to help them sustain a relationship, to right one that has gone bad. But therapy to actually entice someone into a committment? This measure of reluctance does not auger well.
I write all this not to hurt, but to ask you to step outside of your situation a little and see it more objectively. Difficult, I know.
Best wishes whatever happens.
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Wow, thanks for stopping by, friends. There’s nothing really to update, so let me address your points one by one.
Wendy, thank you for the vote of confidence. I’m glad I seem like a strong person to someone, and though I feel strong, times like these make me feel quite hopeless (and hapless).
Forget about the snooping. If you knew only what he believes you know, in what way would that situation demonstrate that he respects your perfectly valid feelings about SM and about his commitment to you and your daughter?
Hard to separate, Koshka, because if I only knew what he thinks I know, then she wrote a quick e-mail to find out about a London friend and he wrote back to say everything’s OK. The end. I guess I couldn’t get too up in arms about that as the single correspondence in months. Yes, he hasn’t told her that we are expecting a child, but neither has he talked to her (at our agreement). So I don’t know. I have to take in to account the snooping, because I know that’s not the only thing he said to her in that e-mail. As far as paternal rights, my belief is that he has a right to his children no matter if he shows me love or not. He doesn’t have to love me in order to want to do the right thing by his daughter and be involved in her life. I have to be able to separate what I want for myself from what’s best for the child, and I believe that having a mother and a father is best for a child. Yes, it means that I need to keep striving to make the R between S. and me work, as long as we both determine it’s worth it to do so. Maybe I've missed your point (highly probable, these days). Am I completely off base?
Stubborn, Your brain (with a little help from some hormones?) is trying to kill you. Yes, my brain tries to kill me on occasion. And I realize I’m getting pushy again, and I need to back off and take care of me. Detaching isn't about distancing. Think differentiation. Not taking things personally. Loving detachment. Thanks for the reminder. Taking things personally is a big'un for me.
Do the things you can do (did you get legal advice yet?) I've never been a big fan of parental (not a typo) rights. The implication is that kids are property. I think parental responsibility is a much bigger issue. You never see anybody drag their butt into court demanding to be allowed to pay doctor bills and stay home with a sick kid and on and on.
No, the legal advice is slated for next week. And by the way, amazingly enough, my BIL is dragging himself into court for just that. He is fighting his XW, not for a reduction in CS payments (they were just raised) because he cares a whit about the money (and he doesn't have it to fling around), but for as much time as possible with his kids, the ability to choose their medical care (since my sister is in fact the one covering his children), and the ability to take care of them, in sickness and in health. All he wants is more time with his kids, sick, needy, or otherwise. I actually do believe that S. has the same level of commitment to his daughter.
Livnlearn, Another thing - folks usually need therapy to help them sustain a relationship, to right one that has gone bad. But therapy to actually entice someone into a committment? This measure of reluctance does not auger well.
I’m in fact going to T at S.’s insistence. Not that I wouldn’t have gone willingly, but this time he has dragged me to T, setting everything up himself (calling and interviewing potential Ts, etc.), even chiding me for not being serious about it when I wanted to start a week later because I needed to go out of town. I hear what you’re saying on the other points. But I have to remind you that S. is “keeping me here,” and I’m trying to figure out what it means and make the best of it. If I thought he wanted me to and would let me leave, I’d leave.
Is S ever likely to turn into a stable, honest, committed, cherishing kind of guy? Has he displayed any of these qualities since you have known him? If not, then how will the future be any different? He has, albeit briefly. I’ve seen periods of true commitment, and I do believe he is very sensitive, loving, and can be honest, given the space to be. I also have to take responsibility for my own part – my controlling behavior, my propensity to take everything personally and as a slight against me, my quickness to anger, my self-protective walls, my inability to listen, etc. I think things go very well when I have these behaviors and attitudes in check. And I have to admit, I hate being the one who has to do it first all the time. But I guess that's what we sign on for when we do this DBing thing. It's hard to remember through the indignance.
Certainly, I don’t blame our problems on me. But I do have to, as Stubborn points out, get my head out of my own keister and continue to work on myself. I am, after all, the only person I can change. (Wait a minute, I'm starting to sound reasonable here...)
By the way, Stubborn, the Daily Snoopis the New York Times.
Quote: Detaching isn't about distancing. Think differentiation. Not taking things personally. Loving detachment.
I agree here. J, my point was, being cold and indifferent to him when he reaches out to you is NOT helpful. That's why I suggested insisting on him telling Swiss Miss at your next therapy session - so you can get rid of all this resentment that is causing you to behave badly towards him right now.
I respect you wanting to give him access to his child, even if you aren't together. I thought this week he made the most hopeful declaration yet that he wants a future with you. Get your own divorce in order, tell him you won't move in with him without a ring and a date, and give him an opportunity to step up to the plate.
).
Betsey 
