It's amazing how the issues with S are no different today then the very first day you went on this board. M commitment is simply a different animal.
I think Michele gave you a great reply. I may quibble with the precise meaning of her definition of "joy"--but the essence of her message is that you have to set the path on your own and S is free to join you on his own or not. It seems the only times S has truly responded to you on a critical decision is when you set the path--either when you first went LRT on him or when you decided to have this baby. I suspect if you called the whole relationship off and indicated you would seek a court order of support--he'd get a real does of reality and start making some decisions (I'm not urging this course, but only use it for illustrative purposes).
And Jennifer, please don't take the following as a rap against you, I am far from the person who should cast judgment on others and I hope the folloing is not viewed as such. But on a simply human level, your sitch exemplifies to me where straying from traditional values on relationships, sex, and its consequences can create so much havoc that extends beyond our own lives and impacts others. I say this only as a warning to others on the BB seeking comfort in other R's where our S's have rejected us. I already know of one unwanted pregancy that was ended and would hate to hear more.
That being said, Jennifer, I'm really, really proud of you for keeping this baby. But I agree with Michele that while you can envision the best scenario for that child (a committed M couple), that vision may be illusory and potentially destructive if you try to force it by your own sheer will. I've learned as much in my own M with an outcome I did not desire and I don't want the same thing to happen to you. There is peace at hand if you choose it. Good luck.
Jennifer, I just lost a long post that I was writing to you. I went back to check what you were playing in the park and couldn't get back to my post.
I just said that I thought Michele and Merrick said some great things. I agree with Michele about defining and sticking to your values as being what's important. I also agree with Merrick that the current issue seems like another version of other issues I've read about in your posts.
For some reason, I'm not sure that you'd be as keen on M if either you were legally avalaible or if SO were keen. Also, I can relate to SO wanting you to come clean with your parents about your existing arrangement. I think the issue is much more complicated than: J wants M but SO is ambivalent.
As always, I love the way you talk about your life. If it were a fictional series I'd be following it very closely. I love how honestly you write.
Best, Wendy
Me: 51 H: 52 T: 23 yrs M: 19 yrs S18, D16, S14 (special needs) PA: 2003/2004 Piecing: 2004 on Suspect H had EA: 8/2012-12/2012
I have to speak to the "joy" question. I mentioned being able to handle adversity as well as joy because sometimes we are so dumbstruck by joy we pooh-pooh it or minimize it or ignore it. Especially if we've decided joy's not for us -- we are destined for a life of self-flagellation and suffering.
Don't sabotage the joy which the Universe or God or however you construct your world sends your way. Each of us are worthy of joy, of happiness, of bliss. Being divorced doesn't change that. Being unmarried doesn't change that. Being M doesn't change that. I believe God wants joy for us, and constantly leads us to it. Whether we take Him up on it or not, that's our limitation. If we can't see it because our beliefs limit us, well, that's a tragedy.
Joy is God's desired nature for us all. Being open to it is the key.
Enough preaching. Good night and good luck, Michele
J - Your sitch has been on my mind, and a few things are bubbling up to the surface, so stick with me if this seems disjointed. And note that I am starting from the premise that, since I know you to be a beautiful and intelligent woman, that SO must have redeeming qualities that make him worth fighting for.
Quote: he is still really stuck in the "You chose to have this child and force this on me,"
Now, I must admit - my first reaction to this would be a sentence beginning with a four letter word starting with F. Nonetheless - I feel compelled to point out the possibility that when SO says this, it is really less an attack on you and more an expression of his fear of being a parent. With that in mind, I wonder what would happen if you validated next time he says this? Something along the lines of:
J - "SO, you must find it terrifying to be facing fatherhood when you didn't intend it"
SO Responds
J - "Yes, i find it frightening too. What are you most worried about? SO responds
J - "yes, it is a big responsibility, isn't it?"
SO responds
J - "I know you feel like you didn't get a choice. I feel the same way.But we were both adults who knew birth control isn't foolproof, and that an unintended pregnancy could happen"
SO responds
Note - I've left out SO's responses, because I'm really not clear on how he would respond if you validated him.
Quote: he was saying "I can't even think about marrying her because she's already married,"
I thought you were working on fixing this a while ago??? Or is there still an immigration problem if you divorce now? I agree that SO is using this as a total red herring - a way to try to avoid looking like the "bad guy" because he isn't stepping up to the plate - but there are also legal ramifications for both of you.
I don't know about NY state law, but in most places, when a married woman gets pregnant, her husband is presumed to be the father of the child. It might mean that SO would have to sue to get father's rights. It might also mean that SO could conceivably get out of supporting this child. And you can't exactly go into court and state your marriage is a sham. I recommend getting some legal advice yourself, and figuring out what you must do to straighten this out before the baby comes.
Quote: I started feeling really trapped again, like "This guy is only with me because he wants this baby, and he's going to try to control my life as much as he can." Scary, scary.
Ironic, isn't it, that he wanted you to abort it, but is so concerned about his rights? And let me ask you about your fears of him being "controlling" - was this an issue with him before the affair? How did it manifest itself? Marriage does, in general, make you feel a little "controlled" by the other person, because you are no longer free to do whatever you want whenever you want. Or are there other pre-existing issues with him?
Quote: he kept saying "Why can't there be a third option [aside from getting married and not marrying and living separately] something in between, like where we strive to get along and be good parents?" And I wondered aloud if he meant living together forever, just not as a couple, and I said that wasn't really acceptable to me.
Okay - I've had this stray thought a couple of times now - do you think he wants to live together because it would be cheaper than paying child support? In NY state, can he get out of paying anything if he goes for 50% custody?
I'm thinking you really need to get some legal advice.
I'm also thinking, SO is holding all the cards right now. It's all up to HIM, should he decide to keep you or not??? I went through this with my H when we were first married, and he had that EA with his ex-girlfriend - him sitting around for months, trying to decide who he wanted, me or her. He couldn't really figure it out until I was moved 80 miles away (for school) - then he had the opportunity to miss me, and was able to decide.
I'm thinking SO has to have the opportunity to miss you, J.
J - Can't remember what sign you are,but seems my horoscope tomorrow (Taurus) might be meant for you:
"It is never good to negotiate from a position of weakness. If you want to get a good deal, you have to act as if you are only mildly interested in a prospect or proposition. You need, ideally, to be able to take it or leave it. If you feel that you can't leave it, you'll end up taking it for far too high a price. Stop worrying now about what you might lose if you were to be unable to complete an important transaction. A certain person is just as keen to reach an agreement as you are. "
Oh - and how's this for a rejoinder next time SO says "You chose to have this child and force this on me," - you say - "No, I didn't choose to HAVE this child, but I DID choose not to KILL it!"
Jennifer- I have nothing new to add, but would like to copy Michele’s words of wisdom, as I found them so soothing and uplifting as well.
“We have a choice to have an effortless life. We can choose the peaceful path. To do so, we have to understand and love ourselves, and strive to be authentic in all our Rs. Even the one we have with ourselves. I believe when we fight our own self and the Universe, we set our selves up for an effort-full life over an effortless one. Make sense?
Decide on the life you want and live it. If you want a life coherent with your values, goals and truths, then live your values, goals and truths. If others choose to join you, great. If you do it by yourself, for yourself -- child, your life will be so joyful. With or without him.
Don't sabotage the joy which the Universe or God or however you construct your world sends your way. Each of us are worthy of joy, of happiness, of bliss. Being divorced doesn't change that. Being unmarried doesn't change that. Being M doesn't change that. I believe God wants joy for us, and constantly leads us to it. Whether we take Him up on it or not, that's our limitation. If we can't see it because our beliefs limit us, well, that's a tragedy.”
I hope you are enjoying your pregnancy, and savoring the thought of being a mother to a gorgeous baby girl. Focus on you and what an incredible journey you are on, whether he is on it or not. I am choosing not to give you advice or ideas about SO, as the mom in me just really really really wants you to be joyful and celebratory about your future. These opportunities don’t come around very often! The picture perfect family may not be what you will have, but you and your daughter’s lives will be so enriched for being together.
J - I hope you are doing well, and that baby is kicking and squirming (in a delightful, not an uncomfortable) way Try not to let all the other stuff get in the way of truly enjoying this moment.
