Quote: he's NOT cleaning his house, packing, or getting ready in any way for the renovations. This translates into a farther out moving-in time, which is hardly acceptable given that I'm going to be 7 months pregnant at the EARLIEST time we can POSSIBLY move in, IF he were on the ball, packing and getting things done to prepare.
I've come to realize that he's not doing it because he doesn't want to. He doesn't want to leave the comfort of his bachelor pad, his haven, the place I'm forcing him to leave because I got pregnant and now his life is changing (my words, not his). I'm "forcing" him to move into one of the other apartments in the house, because it has more room and more light, because it has a space where I can have my home office, because it HAS A KITCHEN, and which also happens to be the most readily rentable apartments (because it will be the first available). He is balking. He wants to rent that one out and take one of the other apts. (so that NEITHER of us gets what he wants? I'm at a loss to understand why).
J, honey - I think I've done this kind of dance with H before, so let me offer a few observations: - don't ASSume you know why he's doing this. Maybe he's just relieving his stress by hand-crafting the world's finest sawhorses, maybe he's "cramming" ( drives me crazy when my H tries to fit too many things into too little time - and he doesn't always succeed, but you know what? He's proved me wrong a zillion times too when I said he couldn't get it all done in time), and maybe you just aren't listening to his ideas about the apartments so he is being passive-aggressive instead. (Could he be worried about finances and therefore reluctant to move into the apartment that might bring the highest rent?)
I know it's hard to fight that nesting instinct, but you ARE sounding ever-so-slightly control-freakish about this (takes one to know one ). After all, it is NOT the end of the world to move into an apartment in the last months of pregnancy - military wives do it all the time. Just line up some reliable friends (like H2H!) to be on call for your unpacking crew when it does happen. I've found that, hard as it is for me, if I just let go of the wheel and let H steer sometimes, we actually DON'T crash off the road!
So - how about validating the heck out of SO, letting him decide about the apartments, telling him you trust him to make a nice home for the three of you, take the pressure OFF - he can't decide to be happy about all this until you stop pushing him to be. I'm guessing he'll be besotted with his own baby once he meets him/her. Until then - be leary of becoming the maternity version of a Bridezilla. Ellie
Hey, it's great to hear from you! It sounds like you're making some good progress. I agree with Ellie, though. Get a grip or we'll start calling you Bridezilla!
I'll chime in with my experience of SO & moving house. The two times we moved, I would start the process as soon as I knew where the next place would be. And he would not lift a finger in that direction. In fact, a couple of times I got an impassioned complaint about "living with boxes" and how he hated it. His style of moving involves running around a day or two ahead of the move, and even packing as the movers are taking away the big stuff.
We drove each other nuts with our different styles of handling things. But as I clearly learned during his own move out of our place, his style is mighty different than mine, but the end result was pretty much the same - he did move out successfully on that dreadful day, and had the phone, cable & other necessities all set up.
As I look back now, I understand a couple of things:
- For him, change is harder than it is for me.
- While I find moving to a new place an exciting thing (for it has always been a 'bigger & better' place), for him leaving behind the 'past' is harder. I'm more the optimist thinking things will be better - and he's more the pessimist & dreads having to set up and sort out all his stuff again. He's a creature of habit.
I do understand your feelings on this, and why you want the particular apartment you picked. It does make perfect sense to me. But if we were to take a larger picture look at things (step back from the apt. issue & take a R. view), maybe allowing S. to make the choice about what's best for the 'family' might actually get you closer to your R. goals... It can allow him to have a choice in a situation that he is still feeling somewhat was not of own his choosing.
Let me ask you, why do you think that S. is NOT taking into consideration what's best for all 3 of you? Is it that you feel he has a different 'vision' or is it that he has a different 'option' of achieving your shared vision?
And of course, you can count on me to help with the move!
It's great to hear from all of you. I feel like old friends again!
Quote: After all, it is NOT the end of the world to move into an apartment in the last months of pregnancy - military wives do it all the time.
Let me clarify. S. has issues about money, yes. But not because he doesn't have any! Getting an extra month's rent (basically, $1600) out of that apartment, in the grand scheme of things, hardly (in my book) makes up for not moving into a place as soon as possible. And to address your comment above, Ellie, military wives have been actually living with their spouses already. My thought - which I think is perfectly reasonable - is to move in together as soon as possibile so that we aren't adjusting to a new space, a new baby, AND living together all at once. Remember, we don't live together now. It's not the moving I'm worried about, it's sharing a space at all! And, maybe you didn't catch this, but the apartment I want to move into HAS A KITCHEN.
So anyway, you're right about not trusting that he's going to do the right thing. I've really given up, in a way, but I still see him doing everything BUT preparing to move. It's disconcerting. We have so little time - it's not like the drop-dead date is somewhere out in the nebulous future. It's a matter of days before he has to have his apartment packed up.
What I CAN do is stay out of his hair, because he tends to blame me for not getting anything done. I have no idea how this happens, because I seem to have no trouble getting all MY work done, which is more than full-time work, and somehow he gets none done and it's my fault. So I can stay away, and let him stew in his own mess and avoid being blamed for it later.
We leave tomorrow for his sister's wedding in California, so starting tomorrow morning I'll be off the boards until Tuesday. We have T tonight so maybe I'll have time to pop in for an update.
Quote: And to address your comment above, Ellie, military wives have been actually living with their spouses already. My thought - which I think is perfectly reasonable - is to move in together as soon as possibile so that we aren't adjusting to a new space, a new baby, AND living together all at once. Remember, we don't live together now. It's not the moving I'm worried about, it's sharing a space at all! And, maybe you didn't catch this, but the apartment I want to move into HAS A KITCHEN.
J - no one is suggesting that your ideas aren't reasonable - of course they are . BUT - they aren't HIS ideas, and he undoubtedly has his reasons why he thinks HIS way is best, and even if they are stupid reasons, relationships are all about compromise. And since he tends to be more frugal than you, and he knows you are in debt, maybe that $1600 DOES mean a lot to him. (And a word of caution here - most people spend WAY too much on baby stuff - stuff that you'll be giving to the Goodwill within months or a year. And that won't matter one wit to your baby. So maybe a good 180 to pull here, to demonstrate to SO that your are being fiscally responsible, would be to look into ways to furnish the nursery more inexpensively, etc.)
As for the other elephant in the living room - that he may not really step up to the plate - sure, that's nerve-wracking. But pressuring him won't improve the situation. Trust me on this one.
And neither will getting mad at him. Let's face it - I told you a long time ago he was a poor risk and you deserved someone who thought the sun rose and set on you. You decided that he was worth all the pain and aggravation of working out your R, despite his flaws. So - it's really not fair to get mad at him now for those same flaws.
And - having said all that - don't despair. My H wanted NOTHING to do with babies before we had our son - wouldn't even hold my niece and nephew. Our pregnancy was planned ,and H was happy about it - but not in a goofy way. When our son was born, though - H had to take him around to everyone in the hospital, and make them all say he was the most beautiful baby they'd ever seen. He was a fool for that baby. Hopefully it will kick in for SO like that.
In the meantime - let go of the steering wheel. Enjoy being pregnant. Live in the moment.
So long as the baby has a roof over its head, some food in it's tummy, and a mommy and daddy who love him/her--you're 90% of the way there. The world is not going to conform itself it you right now or any time for that matter. Thus, I think the best thing you can do right now is keep telling S how excited you are to be having this baby and letting him know that you think he'll be a great father.
To repeat, S will NEVER be as pre-occupied with you regarding the baby's needs. That doesn't mean he loves the baby or you any less, but men are not mothers and it is just not the same. I also can assure you that any advantage of living together a few months before the baby arrives will be a distant memory within days of the baby's arrival. Chill. The real difficulty I see ahead is that I sense S may never match your expectations of what is expected of him as a father---let alone a husband if you don't adjust. And S needs to learn that your anxiety is normal for most mothers and is going to last a lifetime. Be well and take good pre-natal care.
Back from southern California and a really lovely wedding (S's sister's first, to a man with a D7 from a prev marriage). S. and I were close, and we had a really good time with his family and the new in-laws. Everyone referred to me as the new SIL, and I felt very included and accepted as part of the family. Even S. referred to me as the little girl's "new aunt." He also made comments during the wedding about what he wanted and didn't want in "his wedding," and was asking me what I thought. All good signs, as he has backed off from talking of marriage since we went to Ga. to tell my parents we were getting married.
I'm a little reticent to go here, but who said I was pressuring S.? I posted my concerns, and how I feel about his not moving in the direction of getting ready for a big move, and suddenly I am Bridezilla and a control freak. In fact, I said that I was staying out of his hair, and trying NOT to control what he's doing. I’m aware and being careful not to sound defensive here, but I think I got some unfair criticism above. I certainly have taken my whacks in the past, but in this case, I don't think they're quite warranted. For my part, I'll try to be more clear in the future about when I’m venting here and what I'm actually saying to S.
I appreciate the constructive questions about why I think he might NOT be acting in our best interests, and I'll answer that below. But Ellie, telling me that you warned me long ago that S. is a "poor risk" is simply unproductive and quite honestly, offensive. I think S. is a wonderful person, and despite his faults, will grow into a wonderful husband and father. I'm trying to work with what we have and what we've talked about and decided together as a couple. At some point, when you decide on something together, you have to be accountable for it.
Another clarification: S. is thrilled at the prospect of having a baby and becoming a father. He is very excited – he just shows it differently than I do. I’m not worried that he won’t want anything to do with the baby, and in fact I’m quite convinced that I’ll have to arm wrestle him for cuddle time with her .
Quote: So maybe a good 180 to pull here, to demonstrate to SO that your are being fiscally responsible, would be to look into ways to furnish the nursery more inexpensively, etc.)
Nursery?! I just hope we have a kitchen when we move in! There is no nursery. Our bedroom will be the three of ours, until such time as we buy another house and move out of S’s building. We'll have a bedroom and a living room with a small kitchen, nothing more. We're moving from a combined 2400 ft2 to 800 ft2. We’ll use our existing furniture for now - except for something that attaches to our bed for the baby to sleep in - and the leftovers will travel to Vermont.
Quote: Let me ask you, why do you think that S. is NOT taking into consideration what's best for all 3 of you? Is it that you feel he has a different 'vision' or is it that he has a different 'option' of achieving your shared vision?
H2H, I don’t think he is NOT taking into consideration what is best for us, but S. is a master procrastinator (it takes one to know one), and I can see that he is not doing anything at the moment that will get us into a finished apartment when the time comes. I see him working on his sawhorses, I see him reading magazine articles about timber framing and world economy and art and books about building stone walls and cooking up new woodworking projects to do, and yes, I even see him spending a LOT of time with me and putting a LOT of energy into our R. I see him using any excuse not to pack up his things, a first step in getting ready for the contractors on 20 June (and that doesn’t mean he has 19 days, he has 9, at best). This is not to mention all the OTHER things that need to happen in preparation before the contractors come – and all manner of renovation that could happen before and during - but none of it can happen until he packs up his apartment (and this is by his logic). So, he still has a suitcase from a trip in March sitting on his floor with dirty clothes in it, stacks (and stacks) of newspapers he has saved to go through for an article here and there, piles of mail, boxes (and boxes) of unfiled crap, and various and sundry other piles that amount to a LARGE amount of sorting, much less packing, time. Another thing to consider is that I live with a couple – when I move is going to affect them. They are moving when I do so we can rent out our place at the same time. So what I do affects them – and they are accommodating ME, after all - and I’m trying to give them as much notice as possible. They have to find a new place, and in NYC it’s harder than in most cities (and enormously more expensive). I can’t just tell them “Maybe August 1, maybe September 1.” That just won’t cut it.
I do appreciate his feeling of leaving something he’s lived in for years, and how that is causing him anxiety. One of my goals is to make sure he knows I realize this and validate the heck out of him the whole way. But doesn’t he have to start packing before I can validate how much I appreciate his taking steps to leave his place? I suppose I could validate his anxiety without a snail’s move on his part.
Anyway, things are basically good – we are feeling closer and are a little better able to avoid conflict through the tools we are learning in T (mostly Harville Hendrix’s mirroring, validating, and empathizing).
Let me be clear about this: S. wants this R to work, he wants us to be happy, and he is devoting a LOT of energy to these goals. I’m not perfect, to be sure. But I’m trying, too. I’d love to hear some feedback on ways I can validate and support S. while he ISN’T doing what by his own admission he needs to be doing… and ways I can cope with the inaction. Remember, folks, I’m not trying to “win” him back – I’m trying to make an established partnership work, and somewhat on a deadline!
J - I'm sorry I offended you with my comment. My point was simply that you knew he was imperfect in a lot of these ways, and made the perfectly valid decision that the good outweighed the bad and you still wanted to work on the R. Given that decision, I didn't think it fair or useful to then be mad at him for having those imperfections. And usually, there's a flip side to our spouses imperfections that has something to do with why we chose them (my H's perfectionism, for instance, drives me crazy - but I also must admit I picked him in part because he was a motivated and productive guy - the other side of that coin).
I understand his procrastination is driving you mad - it would me too. And I understand the underlying fear - will he chicken out at the last minute? I'm just trying to point out that pressuring him and trying to control this outcome is probably counterproductive. Tell him you trust him to have the apartment ready in time, and let it go. Enjoy being pregnant, don't borrow trouble from the future. If he does come though, you'll have spent all this time and negative energy worrying for nothing.
I learned something in T that I thought I knew, but that has nuances I did not know that make it work like a charm. It's the Imago-style mirroring, but it follows up with validating and then goes to empathizing. Here’s an example from last week’s T:
Mirroring: J: When you do something nice for me, like [activity], I feel like you have to let me know that you didn’t enjoy doing it. I tried to appreciate you afterward and thank you for doing it, because it meant a lot to me, and you didn’t respond positively but let me know how exhausting it was and how much it interfered with what you would have been doing.
S: What I’m hearing you say is that you tried to thank me for doing something nice for you and I responded negatively. Am I on the right track?
J: Yes, and I felt deflated, like I could no longer share the experience with you anymore, because you would respond negatively, and I wanted to savor the experience.
S: So what you’re saying is that it took the joy out of your experience and prevented you from sharing it with me. Is that it?
J: Yes. I knew it was a pain, and that you sacrificed a lot to go with me. But I also felt like if you agreed to go, then you shouldn’t then punish me and resent me for it.
S: So you felt like I resented doing it, although I agreed to do it in the first place, and then punished you for it by not accepting your appreciation and grousing about having gone with you. And I shouldn’t have done that. Did I get that right?
J: Yes, that’s it.
Validating:
S: I can understand how you feel because it sucks to be grateful for something and have someone give you a negative response.
J: Right.
S: And that makes sense to me because you feel guilty for putting the person out, even though they agreed to do it and they seemed like they wanted to.
J: Yes.
Empathizing:
S: I know exactly how you feel because something like that has happened to me, too. You think you have a good experience, and then something at the end ruins it. And no matter how great the event was, the end experience casts a pall on the whole day.
My T emphasized that nothing in the mirroring, validating, or empathizing necessarily means that the person agrees with you, it just means that person is really listening and trying to come into your world to understand how you feel. And wow, did it work. S. got all excited at the end, explaining why it really sucked, and I was grinning like a banshee by the time he finished. I think I was even laughing, because he got so animated. And then I mirrored, v’d, and e’d him, and when I was done he gave me a high five. It was amazing. It took some coaching from the T, because both of us were stonefaced at the beginning and didn’t want to sound like we were agreeing with the other (because neither of us did), but with practice it can become a really useful tool. If I can feel that way half the time I want to tell S. something and he listens to me like that, we’ll be doing better than most.
Thank you, Ellie, for apologizing. Funny that your H’s perfectionism leads him to be motivated and productive. S’s and my brand of perfectionism causes us to be paralyzed. I recognize the procrastination because S. can’t bring himself to start the work – it’s too daunting with his enormously high expectations. I’m exactly the same way. Hmm, I sense some empathizing fodder here…
Thanks for sharing your lesson from T. I especially like the color coding for ease of studying. (The link on my thread helped, too. )
Hmm. I will be studying this. Let me just mirror that back and make sure I've got it right:
Mirroring - Reflecting back what you've heard and checking it out. Fine tuning until you get it right.
Validating - Some way of saying "that makes sense," such as, "I can see how you would think that." The opposite of, "That's ludicrous. You're nuts."
Empathizing - Some flavor of, "I understand how you feel."
I'm a little fuzzy on the value of the empathy. Often it's baloney to say that you know how someone else feels. If I can say that I've had similar experiences that brought up similar feelings, then I still want to be careful not to turn the focus to me and my feelings. The empathizing one looks booby trapped to me, but maybe that's just me...
(I promise not to call you Bridezilla, but, dang, it had such a good ring to it!)
). After all, it is NOT the end of the world to move into an apartment in the last months of pregnancy - military wives do it all the time. Just line up some reliable friends (like H2H!) to be on call for your unpacking crew when it does happen. I've found that, hard as it is for me, if I just let go of the wheel and let H steer sometimes, we actually DON'T crash off the road!
There is no nursery. Our bedroom will be the three of ours, until such time as we buy another house and move out of S’s building. We'll have a bedroom and a living room with a small kitchen, nothing more. We're moving from a combined 2400 ft2 to 800 ft2. We’ll use our existing furniture for now - except for something that attaches to our bed for the baby to sleep in - and the leftovers will travel to Vermont.