Yes I have read SSM. My H hasn't - he's often dismissive of selfhelp books, but perhaps it would help.
My W got more mileage from a self-help than years of therapy.
Quote: My problem is I feel I need to reread it everyday to remind myself to keep it at the top of my todo list. (I need the bracelet or the tatoo "I like sex" to remind myself I like it once I get into it even tho it just doesn't occur to me a lot of the time and other things end up seeming more important).
If that's what it takes, do it or consider the book on tape and listen when you commute to work. Another option: make sex terms your passwords (like for this BB). Example: 'Intercourse' has 12 letters which is more than long enough for most security settings.
Quote: He says the "OW" is just a buddy; the email just a stupid male fantasy which he admits he never should have sent. Problem is the "OW" is a close friend of both of us.
Maybe so. Just don't leave them alone in the same room or vehicle. Lead them not to temptation. Consider also having a word with her and/or her SO about this matter.
It's good to see that you are willing to work on the problem. Oh, and welcome to the BB.
Hi doglover-Just wanted to add a few things to your post. You mentioned that some of your needs are not being met such as H not cuddling, possibly not affectionate, helping you out around the house, etc, etc. and therefore not a help in putting you in the mood (I felt the same way). Well part of the concept of DB is that one person can make a change in the R. This was true of my H and I. Once I started satisfying his needs for ML he started doing "thoughtful" things for me including helping me around the house, cuddling, openning up the lines of communication. It was amazing.
As far as being LD, I can relate. However I have found that this is a state of mind. I have gotten down to my goal weight and feel much more secure about my body. In addition I buy sexy lingerie b/c it makes me feel good. I am sure to keep this subject on the forefront of my mind to ensure that it stays a priority to me. In doing so, some people might even consider me HD now-and I love it! Find whatever it is that puts you in the mood and makes you feel sexy.
Like you, before I would always take my H for granted and put him at the end of my "to do" list. I wanted to get everything else done first. Big mistake! I never got around to him and the attention he needed. I say when the mood strikes him, don't reject him. Instead build him up and go for it or better yet, you be the one to initiate. You might just be surprised at the result and reaction you get from it.
These changes were mandatory for my M to stay intact. Now that I have made them, I am wondering why I didn't "get it" years ago and make the changes then. Your H is looking for something and sure that might be a quality in the "OW" but I am sure he would much rather find that "quality" in you rather than looking elsewhere.
You can overcome being LD and your R can be soooo much better. At least this is what I have found.
Quote: I don't know how I can work on LD if it just isn't on my mind.
With a soft voice, I will point out to you that this is a copout.
When your children were young, you didn't get to just forget to feed them because it wasn't on your mind. You planned for meals. You can plan for sex in a similar way.
You have the ability to impact your mind and aren't a mere slave to whatever random thought may or may not pass through.
The question isn't whether or not your drive is on your mind, the question is whether or not you will step up to the plate and take an active part in not allowing your marriage to fall to the wayside.
Thankyou. You are correct. I know it is something I MUST work on every day to preserve my marriage, regardless of whether I spontaneously think about it or not.
It is clear to H and to me that I often make other things a higher priority. E.g., we came back from a weekend trip to visit relatives last night, arriving home from the airport around 10:30pm. We had had a good weekend - it distracted us from the pain we had suffered last week due to the accidental email. Due to crowded sleeping arrangements we had had no privacy during the weekend but cuddled on the plane ride back. But then there was the heap of mail by the front door for me to sort. And then he dashed out to get a Sunday paper from a late night store. And then there was email.
Knowing that the amount of time I spend on email is a bone of contention for us, I decided to check my email while he did his errand. It was only going to be a quick check, but of course it took me longer than it should - it usually does - so I was on email when he came home. So he watched the 11pm news and when it was over he said "Why do you always turn to email when we get in the door? Now it is too late." So the cycle of disappointment and accusation started again.
Because of the feelings stirred up by the errant email (which he says is just a symptom of the fact that our marriage has issues around sexual frustration and has almost nothing to do with the "OW" at all) we plan to make an appointment with a family therapist we have seen over the years about various family dynamics issues - mostly NOT about sexual issues. But the therapist feels almost like a member of the family - I don't know if I can bring myself to talk frankly with him - I would almost prefer to see someone entirely new.
In the meantime, I know I need to mentally schedule time for my H. He is addicted to the 11pm news which is not particularly a turn-on for me, especially not the final sports report. He doesn't usually need a turn-on (though these days he often needs the advance notice that a sexual interlude would be welcome so that he can take a viagra). And I need more preparation than I did 30 years ago. So it's almost impossible to be spontaneous. But I think the resentment I sometimes feel about the 11pm news (sometimes if there's a TV program we'd like to watch at 10pm - we both like ER - then he'd like to fit an interlude in from 9-10pm which feels like time pressure for me) is mainly also a copout on my part. Sometimes I have said "well you can choose between me and the late news". Easy for me to say, but if he were to quit watching the late news, it's not clear to me that I'd spontaneously initiate or even be wholly receptive. I suppose I could use the 11pm news time to prepare and psyche myself up, forwarning him so he could be prepared as well.
Fundamentally, I just too easily fall back into patterns which don't help - denigrating his urges, feeling that we "just did it a few days ago, so can't he hold off", feeling that he didn't make the overture perfectly - perhaps he was too crude and straightforward about his needs instead of being more indirect and romantic. But I think many of those thoughts are copouts on my part.
I think that SSM refers somewhere to the fact that in the LD partner the urges may be there but in a much quieter subtler form - I need to encourage those flickers in myself instead of dismissing them. Perhaps as one person said I should take to wearing sexy lingerie everyday in order to feel sexier myself. In any case I need to take the Nike approach.
Thank you, Doglover
Quote:
Quote: "I don't know how I can work on LD if it just isn't on my mind."
With a soft voice, I will point out to you that this is a copout.
When your children were young, you didn't get to just forget to feed them because it wasn't on your mind. You planned for meals. You can plan for sex in a similar way.
You have the ability to impact your mind and aren't a mere slave to whatever random thought may or may not pass through.
The question isn't whether or not your drive is on your mind, the question is whether or not you will step up to the plate and take an active part in not allowing your marriage to fall to the wayside.
MrsNOP -
There are many wise, empathetic and funny people here: you are my buddies - I'm grateful for your support.
"Because of the feelings stirred up by the errant email (which he says is just a symptom of the fact that our marriage has issues around sexual frustration and has almost nothing to do with the "OW" at all"
doglover, My W said those exact words, verbatim, as a cover for her A. She said it wasn't about him, and now that she has been caught red handed, she says her A isn't about me. HMMMMMMM
Look into it before accepting his words. An email is just an email, but many emails, or an empty cache and sent items folder are red flags. Look for the flags. If H is completely accountable, halleluiah!
Why is email such a bone of contention for you two?
Do you work from home and the emails have to be answered or dealt with prior to Monday morning? Is there a way to put it off so that particular bone can be wiped off the list? Just throwing out some ideas to you. Not that you have to stop checking it entirely, but perhaps giving a little on this request would reap big benefits for you.
As far as the news, why does it bother you that he watches it faithfully? Does he expect YOU to stay up and be ready for action afterwards? That would bother me, too, if so..
Also, is there a time of day in which you prefer to have sex? I can see how him expecting to fill the 9-10 slot with sex would put pressure on you. If you were choosing the time of day, maybe this would take care of it.
Btw, I wanted to say that I admire you. You seem to have a very keen insight into your own behavior and that is really a critical component of success, imo.
Good luck to you; we are all struggling with our own demons no matter if our desire level is high or low, but it is nice to know that others are out there working on their M's too, isn't it?
As far as the email goes, I would trust what he says--that she is a symptom--but I would also keep on my toes and make myself aware of his doings.
And by all means get a new therapist. Consider this a fresh start for your marriage, in every single way.
Why is email such a bone of contention for you two?
Sometimes I DO take work home on nights and weekends and need to check my email. But usually work email does not take so long and that email is not the type that aggravates my H.
I'm involved in some community volunteer/civic/political groups which conduct part of their business via email. For several of those I "manage" listservs. I don't spend a lot of time on the phone the way some women do, but some of these people have become "virtual" friends of mine.
I haven't analyzed it totally, but I think part of the tension is that I am focusing on something that doesn't include him. (Sometimes I have felt his reaction is unfair, because he has been involved in various groups throughout our marriage, whereas I didn't begin until our kids were teenagers - kids, home and job were more than enough before then.) But H is also right that for whatever reasons I let my involvement in these groups overflow into my personal life more than he does. Certainly, if I'm doing email late at night, it can interfere with ML, esp if it aggravates him and so destroys the mood. But in any case just the amount of time can take away from our time together unless I am disciplined.
Perhaps I can try to segregate my email (and BB use) to my office - but then I'd need to work longer hours to get the same job done (and hope no one looks over my shoulder at the DB BB). It might be worth it though.
Seems to me there is often a tension in a R re how much time is spent together vs apart, and if together, exactly what those joint activities are. I think I may be a bit more solitary than my H. In any case, we often find it hard to structure our free time so we have a satisfactory balance of together and apart time.
Quote:
As far as the news, why does it bother you that he watches it faithfully?
Perhaps it's partly a reaction on my part, a tit-for-tat of which I'm not proud, ie if he's going to complain about how I spend time on email then I can complain about how rigid he is about watching the late news. Also, it makes me feel as though he sets the "schedule". And given that his work hours are much shorter than mine now that he's semi-retired, he can more easily look forward to ML late-night or in the morning (his preference).
I think another thread talks about setting a schedule for ML. Perhaps that would help, to have 1 or 2 nights a week set aside just for us. I have suggested to my H a "date night", a concept he poo-poos as artificial. But I guess I couple it with the idea that music, a glass of wine, perhaps a romantic video, might all be nice to set the mood on a "date night". He's more of the "let's just do it" school of thought. (Though it's also true that he's more physically demonstrative throughout the day than I am).
Doglover
There are many wise, empathetic and funny people here: you are my buddies - I'm grateful for your support.
First of all, Honeypot...I hope you are feeling MUCH better.
2nd....I really COMPLETELY understand why this could be a BIG problem for Mr.Doglover. I experience this with my LDH....he loves to relax by playing his computer games for hours on end. I get jealous of his time on the computer, because it's time he could/should be spending w/me because I feel alone, neglected, ignored etc....and that damned inanimate object gets more attention than me (at least that's how I used to feel).
I guess this one is just pretty cut and dry for me....if he thinks you spend too much time on the puter, you very well may...at least for now, in your R. If he views that computer as his competition (and that's what I did often) then that's not good. IMHO it's best to really pay attention to when you choose to check your e-mail, and monitor how much time you spend on the puter.
One thing that helps us is that I'll let my H know if there's a movie coming on....or if dinner will be ready...in a certain amount of time. This way he knows I want his attention at those times....I give him the time he needs to unwind a bit on the puter, and then he gives me my time too. So far it's really working well....but you know what? I'm noticing, he's spending MUCH less time on the computer and I haven't even asked him to....but he's choosing to do this because we are happier spending time with each other now...not apart from each other (but under the same roof).
My bf will also sit on the computer at all hours. I do too (obviously), but I'm conscious of his need for my attention and my need not to be online all the time.
On the other hand, DL said
Quote: But H is also right that for whatever reasons I let my involvement in these groups overflow into my personal life more than he does.
These groups ARE part of your personal life. Not every bit of your personal life needs to be devoted to your H.
I haven't posted for a while but have been reading other people's posts (all the while aware that too much time at the computer is bad for our R), SSM, and some other books and have been working on issues.
A few questions - has anyone had experience with a therapist from the list of AASECT members (American Association of Sex Educators, Counselors and Therapists)? I think we need to see someone who has experience with sexual problems but also believe that the R issues need to be addressed at the same time. I got a few local names and thought my H would be pleased that I am trying to address this issue - but it turns out he has his own hangups over discussing these issues with a 3rd party (not that it's so easy for me) so it may take some persuading. Today H saw a family counselor we have seen off and on and he has seen individually. But the C, H and I all agree that he is not the one to help us with these issues. (His strength is more with parenting and R issues.)
I have been working at keeping our sexual R on the front burner and trying to initiate more. There ought to be a Sex "book of the month club" - it's helpful to me to read about these issues because it helps them stay at the forefront of my mind.
H doesn't understand this - being HD he has sex at the forefront of his mind much of the time, esp if he is unsatisfied.
I explained to him that, at least currently, it seems to work differently for me. The less sex I have the less I think about it; the more I have, the more it's on my mind. This is so counter intuitive to him. (I often feel weird, certainly out of step with the media and perhaps with the rest of the world. H says "well what do your friends think?" but we don't much discuss our sex lives.)
Does anyone have suggestions for books of sexual fantasies and are they a turn-on? Browzing on Amazon.com I saw "Bedtime Fantasies for Women" and "Sweet Life - Erotic Fantasies for Couples". I am not sure that I would like these but may try one - I never was much into porn though an R-rated movie can be exciting.
Has anyone (woman) had experience with Testosterone? I could be wrong but my memory was that it would also require Estrogen but I'm reluctant to go back onto HRT. Haven't had a chance to see my doctor yet to ask.
Thank you, Doglover
There are many wise, empathetic and funny people here: you are my buddies - I'm grateful for your support.
- it's helpful to me to read about these issues because it helps them stay at the forefront of my mind.