My H and I have been married over 30 yrs and have always had some issues around his HD and my LD. But when our kids were around life was often so hectic that we were both too tired anyway. Now H is semi-retired and the problems seem greater. He is upset that I don't initiate often enough and upset that we only do it once a week, twice on a good week - but unfortunately it's just not on my mind as much as on his. He has some ED which makes each encounter a challenge for him and each failure a depressing blow. (Aside from viagra, his Drs have not been very helpful). We've been together a long time and share a lot of history and love, but he talks about needing to find another woman. I accidentally found that he recently sent a very suggestive email to a W friend of ours. He said it was nothing, just words, just a stupid male fantasy. I felt it was a verbal pass and a violation of our trust. We are both very upset. I don't know how I can work on LD if it just isn't on my mind.
There are many wise, empathetic and funny people here: you are my buddies - I'm grateful for your support.
Good for you for looking to improve your situation. Here's some questions for you to give us all a better background on you....
1. How often do you initiate? 2. How often would he ideally like to ML? 3. Between what how often he would like to ML and how often you would like to ML...where is a liveable # of times that you could compromise on for frequency? 3. Do the two of you ever do sexual things but not full intercourse when one or the other isn't fully "in the mood"? 4. Do you do anything sexual throughout the day to show your H you find him attractive? (ie: touches, rubbing up against him, whatever he finds attractive) 5. How do the two of you communicate with each other in general. Do you two tend to be up-front and honest or tend to avoid conflict? 6. Do you feel physical contact from him must lead to sex, or does he touch you affectionately too....can you just snuggle and feel he doesn't expect more? 7. Do you feel you show him that you find him attractive? 8. How do you show him you find him attractive/desireable? 9. Do the two of you talk honestly about your feelings and how things (like this) affect you and make you feel? 10. What do you do for yourself to make YOU feel attractive?
Oh and....
11. Just to rule out any physical causes for low-libido...have you spoken to your Dr.?
I know this sounds like quite a bit...but think about these things...it's a place to start
Have you and/or your H read SSM yet? Or at least the excerpt on this site? Calling him on suggestive contact with OW was a good start. For HD's, the temptation of an affair may not be easily resisted. I myself shredded a Christmas card and long letter from an old flame. Answering GEL's queries honestly (at least to yourself) will be (to paraphrase a Chinese cliche) the first step in a thousand mile journey. Don't give up.
Thank you so much for you many thoughtful suggestions. (I don't know if I'm going to get the quoting right but I'll try)
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1. How often do you initiate? 2. How often would he ideally like to ML? 3. Between what how often he would like to ML and how often you would like to ML...where is a liveable # of times that you could compromise on for frequency?
I guess it's important to analyze issues around frequency, but what troubles me is it begins to sound mechanistic. I asked H today how often he needs to ML before he feels "horny all the time", a state he says he is often in. I felt stupid asking the question - it feels like it reduces the whole issue to putting X's on the calendar - but he said it was a good one. He paused and said "every other day" (and this man is a senior citizen)
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11. Just to rule out any physical causes for low-libido...have you spoken to your Dr.?
I wouldn't be surprised if I have low testosterone and suppose I should have it checked, but I went off HRT after everything hit the fan a few years ago and so am wary of hormonal treatments in general. Maybe it would be helpful to know tho.
H probably has medical issues too (ED side effects of BP meds) which hinder his self-confidence, often his ability to achieve release and probably makes him feel he needs to "prove himself". So although he's usually HD sometimes it's hard for him to achieve and then he's devastated. (For me it is no big deal). But his Dr doesn't offer much besides the little blue pill. And the internet offers 50 million inappropriate entries.
I still work and so have a lot of chores to do on Saturdays. But if the mood hits him at noon, he feels terribly rejected if I say evening would be better. I guess it would be better for us as a couple if I would just "seize the day" even if it's not at the top of my todo list.
As far as I'm concerned, we need to do more snuggling and it would help put me in the mood. He doesn't understand my need to get in the mood - he says it's on a man's mind all the time.
Doglover
There are many wise, empathetic and funny people here: you are my buddies - I'm grateful for your support.
Yes I have read SSM. My H hasn't - he's often dismissive of selfhelp books, but perhaps it would help. My problem is I feel I need to reread it everyday to remind myself to keep it at the top of my todo list. (I need the bracelet or the tatoo "I like sex" to remind myself I like it once I get into it even tho it just doesn't occur to me a lot of the time and other things end up seeming more important).
He says the "OW" is just a buddy; the email just a stupid male fantasy which he admits he never should have sent. Problem is the "OW" is a close friend of both of us.
Doglover
There are many wise, empathetic and funny people here: you are my buddies - I'm grateful for your support.
I'm going to respond to his e-mail to your mutual friend first. Be VERY wary of this...I'm sure you've read other threads on here as well. CSW's W maintained her OM was "just a friend" for quite some time...until recently as a matter of fact....this was not just a "friendship".
How was this e-mail brought to your attention? Did he tell you, or did your friend? Either way...that is completely inappropriate behavior no matter how he justifies it. It MUST stop.
Ok...now with that said on with the rest. From what I read I understood you to say that there are things he could be doing that would help you get in the mood at times...like snuggling....this is something he doesn't understand.
So....it's apparant to me that there are needs of yours he's not meeting either; maybe some that are completely obvious to you, maybe some are more vague...things that you think are little and maybe a bit silly can often be needs that are left unmet.
As for finding a number to compromise on, compromise isn't really mechanical, it's all in how you look at it. Just because you come upon a compromise that both you and he can live with doesn't mean that you can't do things more often...it doesn't necessarily mean you have to stick to it and take the spontenaity out either.
My guess (and this is just my gut speaking here) is that you need to speak up and talk to your H about how all of this makes YOU feel. ML every other day, while ideal for an HD person is very intimidating to an LD person....and can leave the LD spouse feeling very pressured.
It really sounds to me like there's some communicating that needs to happen between you and your H. If your H feels rejected if you don't want to ML at noon, but you suggest another time during the day...there's more going on. Do you follow-through when you try to re-schedule? Do you go to bed with things on your mind or do you try to give him your attention? Do you initiate when you re-schedule?
Here's a suggestion....sit down and make yourself a list of things that you think he could do that would make you feel more amorous towards him. Then think about, does he do these things...doesn't he? In that list that you write I wouldn't be at all surprised to find things that are actual needs of yours that aren't being met...does he mean to not meet these needs? Probably not.
It's as simple (and as frustrating) as what works for him doesn't work for you and vice-versa.
Ok...let us know what your list is when you come up with it.
Oh...and also, as someone else mentioned pick up a copy of SSM (it's also available on tape if it's easier for you to listen in the car.) You will be amazed to find how much you will relate to some of the people in the book...and also how much your H will.
Quote: I felt stupid asking the question - it feels like it reduces the whole issue to putting X's on the calendar - but he said it was a good one. He paused and said "every other day" (and this man is a senior citizen)
Our situations have many similaraties, some differences too.
If I were asked the question with the intentions from Wife/BB (also a dog lover) to make changes, I would be thrilled. I consider what you did, a big step. Let go of the ideas of putting X's on a calander and more like planning a minature private birthday suit party.
I agree with posts concerning lists or talking about what you need like more closeness and non-sexual attention. He can learn to do this if it is broken down into small steps (Ex 4 hugs a day, 20 second each). Things like this are difficult to do if he thinks the W will chicken out when it comes to his needs. BTDT myself. I did many of the little things mostly to be talked out of the sex at the end of the day. Too tired now, you should have started sooner, I have a dentist appointment tomorrow at 10AM, and on and on. Why try sometimes?
Nooners and afternoon delight: I have those thoughts too. I would not feel rejected if I got a true offer to to connect at some more appropriate time. Most offers for some other times is really a brush-offs with the hopes that the sexual tension will go away. I am not wrighting so you understand me. I am writing this to say how your H "might" feel or from another (senior citizen too) man's point of view. I could list more of my wants or desires but will not now, because this is your thread.
BB is not much of a book person either. So not all guys refuse to read books. People are people with a mix of behaviors that are gender stereotypes and a reverse of the stereotypes.
I will have to wait on making and posting lists given time constraints. AND one pet peeve of H has been I spend too much time sending emails (re various community projects etc). So too much time on this BB won't be good for us as a couple. But it has been very helpful for me to feel supported on the BB re these issues which are so personal and so painful.
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I'm going to respond to his e-mail to your mutual friend first. Be VERY wary of this...I'm sure you've read other threads on here as well. CSW's W maintained her OM was "just a friend" for quite some time...until recently as a matter of fact....this was not just a "friendship".
How was this e-mail brought to your attention? Did he tell you, or did your friend? Either way...that is completely inappropriate behavior no matter how he justifies it. It MUST stop.
Re the email, I found out by accident the other morning via a computer snafu - I pasted something into an email I was sending and his very offcolor rendition of "I get a kick out of you" with "OW"'s name inserted into the refrain was pasted into my outgoing draft email (it must have still been in the "paste" buffer). I was horrified and of course cancelled my current email and called H immediately. H was appropriately ashamed and contrite. H said it had been sent the previous day; "OW" probably hadn't seen it yet because she worked very late that day; and H said he would call her and ask her to trash without reading an email in her inbox from him. H said he did call and left word on her voicemail to call back. She ultimately called our home and reached H; I was working late.
I called "OW" several times that day and finally heard from her after work (just after she had called H). She said there was absolutely nothing between them except friendship and our long friendship (including mine) was terribly important to her. She said she had never done anything to encourage him and if he had sent her a dumb email it was just him acting like an adolescent male. I think she said she hadn't/wouldn't read his email but my mind was in a blur, and anyway even if she said that I'll never know the truth for sure. I was terribly hurt, humiliated by, and angry at H; also angry at "OW" regardless of whether she played any role or not.
I put "OW" in quotes because I don't know if she's really an OW or not. H and "OW" both say not. But I do know what H did was completely inappropriate, and believe that in the right circumstances, and esp being HD, if he felt frustrated at home he could be tempted elsewhere. H says I have every right to throw him out of the house, but he loves me and would never truly want to put our marriage in danger. He just thought he was writing something dumb but funny and it might appeal to "OW"'s fondness for showtunes and risque sense of humor. H now says he knows he should never have sent it.
I don't know how to treat "OW" - some acquaintances have said there should be zero contact from now on. But our lives are entwined in various ways. But I do know I don't want them going to the gym together anymore on their days off (something I stupidly promoted from the outset thinking it was good for both of them).
At breakfast today I asked H if that was just the last of a series of emails, one that I just found by mistake. I asked if he spent time complaining about me to her. He said no to both of my questions, but of course he would say no whatever the truth. He said I shouldn't blow this out of proportion and keep harping on it. We both cried.
I must stop obsessing, esp asking him all these questions, because I don't think it helps our relationship, which has had some issues anyway, move forward. I bought and read SSM some months ago, but I feel I must keep rereading it to keep its principles on my mind.
In answer to both your and OG Lou's suggestions that H needs to be more physically affectionate in a nonsexual way - he probably does so more than me. In general he's more physically demonstrative.
It's just that he's also quite happy to just "do it" on the spur of the moment, something that's harder for me. I have to examine my own motives and make sure that if I put him off to a more convenient time I really do follow through. He says his male ego (and male member) are very fragile these days due to age-related changes etc so he feels he must seize the urge.
Must go and will be out of touch for a few days due to a trip. Thank you for your support.
Doglover
There are many wise, empathetic and funny people here: you are my buddies - I'm grateful for your support.
Ok, so you discovered that e-mail by accident. It is possible your friend is completely innocent...but your H's actions were still WAY out of line. People who send flirtatious e-mails/messages like that often end up in an A before they know it....therefore the danger.
I'm glad your friend told you how important her R w/you is...but I do think it's a good thing to limit their contact alone as well...just to be on the safe side.
You mentioned your H has a problem w/the time you spend on the computer...now that I can understand. I too had a BIG problem w/how much time my H would spend on the computer. It may seem like I spend an awful large amount of time on this myself...but I actually do that majority of my posting while I'm at the office...doing other things as well. My H would come home in the evening and play his computer game for hours on end...tuning the rest of the world out. I find I still become jealous when he's playing that game...and not spending time with me when he could be.
He's doing MUCH better now that I've brought this problem to light. But I've also learned to communicate more clearly with him if there's a time I really need him to be paying attention to our son, or if I would like him to sit down and watch a movie with me...whatever. One of my really big pet peeves was that he'd let his dinner sit and get cold because he was playing his game...after I had already told him (before he started playing) that dinner was almost ready. To me, that was just rude.
That was a long way to say...I'm thinking your H needs some quality time with you. He wants your company...and if you are spending too much time on the computer, it's really hard for him to stand a chance at getting you in the mood isn't it?
You know...even if you don't post your list of needs/wants on here...just make a mental note of them for yourself...maybe jot them down in a notebook during the day when something comes to you. And then really put some thought into those things.
One thing I would definitely do is really examine whether or not you follow-through when you put him off. If you don't then sure, he's going to feel rejected, especially if he has an ED problem. Also, if he does have an ED problem, even if it's not a convenient time, think about taking care of him then...just because you love him. I mean...you seem to understand that his ego is fragile because of his ED right? I'm not saying you have to do that everytime, he's going to have to learn to give a bit too.
Well that's all the time I have for now...I'll check back in on your later :-)
You must insist on complete accountability from your H re: OM. ASAP. Make him open all of his emails sent. Make him share his cell records. Don't give him any other option than complete accountability. His email was inappropriate. Don't say another word about the sitch until you can stand over his shoulder and watch him open the email folder, or open it on your own. If his sent email folder is empty or has only a few entries, that is a red flag. If he won't share the cell record, another red flag.
Get the book "Not "Just Friends"", by Shirley Glass ISBN: 074322549X . Read it, and let H see it (thanks NOP) That was when my W started getting a bit shiftier and more nervous.
Don't feel compelled to use quotes around OW. She is an OW, regardless of the nature of the R. "No contact" is not a necessity if she didn't respond to H, and if it was an isolated incident. But steps would need to be taken to be sure.
Realize that I am no expert. I was LD, W was HD. We both made mistakes, and now things are dangling by one frayed strand of hope. I have received enough help from these kind folks to save my life from emminent destruction. I now see the hope in the morning, noon, and night.
