Quote: I went and got a pedicure which took quite a while because I was the last client of the day and the woman and I had a very interesting conversation about marriage (hers). She's been married for 10 years...2 kids...she basically got pregnant a month after she met her h! Told me the story of how they met (right after a devastating breakup for her, he was smitten right away!) and how over the last 10 years they have learned to treat each other with kindness and respect and make each other and their m. a priority. She told me that a few years ago she realized that she was unhappy in the m. so she set out to understand what was working, what wasn't and how to fix it! Sounds like she was DB'ing without even knowing it! Turns out that the biggest change for her came after they started "dating" each other again...really setting aside time each week. What was PARTICULARLY interesting about that was that she said that for the first few months they almost exclusively did things that interested him (sports, his type of movies,etc) but that gradually he started planning stuff with her in mind.
A nice example (I thought) about getting what YOU want by putting the other person first.
anyway, she was so joyful about her m and had clearly put effort and thought into it. Other stuff -- she said that she no longer personalized her h's reactions, that she herself had worked on her own anger and resentment, etc.
Ah…a good reminder to me; when you can’t control THEM (and you NEVER can!), control YOU:
Quote: First off...let me say that I'm NOT ranting about something "going on" -- I'm not THERE -- I'm just ranting (ok, semi-ranting) about the residue of STUFF. By the end of this note you'll find me happily DB'ing my heart out.
I came home from work last night normal time. h was already home from his internship (a full day of work). I walked in the house and yelled hello. He replied, came downstairs, etc. He said that he hadn't heard me come into the driveway...hadn't heard my car alarm...I said that I knew we were going out (and we were) immediately so I didn't set the alarm. He said "well, it was kind of like you were in stealth mode".
Sigh.
He didn't say it angrily or defensively or anything negatively. And maybe it's not even making sense to my faithful readers...but I've mentioned before that the time when I come home feels WEIRD sometimes...like he's agitated or like he's hovering around me or something.
What the heck am I interrupting with my arrival? A snack of chocolate covered oreos? Scanning ebay for Hummels? Something sinister? Something better? Worse? Heck, maybe he's reading my thread.
The point is...something feels HIDDEN to me and APPARENTLY something feels, what, STEALTHY, to h. Does he think I'm trying to catch him at something?
It reminds me of the time he told me "Every time you ask me a question it sounds like an inquisition". Note that the questions I was asking were related to what kind of sandwich he ate.
So...I have to admit that I'm annoyed. And there's a part of me that's fearful, too. OK, I'm afraid, dammit. What the hell is up with that?
Is he trying to hide something from me? computer stuff? phone stuff?
He told me over the weekend that he would do anything to make me feel more secure. He told me that he didn't feel as though he were secretive about anything.
But he feels as though I'm in stealth mode?
OK...it took a LONG time to shake the discomfort of that off. Went to buy a dishwasher (finally!), went out to dinner (uncomfortable but "as if"), came home, sat on the couch, hours after the exchange we both loosened up.
Was it me reacting? Or was it him? Who the hell knows.
SO....I don't know...it's bugged me today on and off so here's the best DB'ing I can come up with.
GOAL: Remove any actions that suggest to h that I am in stealth mode -- aka -- trying to catch him at something. Do this by calling him and letting him know what time I am coming home, by using the car alarm, by giving him a minute or two after I walk in the door. Make the environment feel more comfortable, less controlling or questioning. Seek to alleviate the uncomfortableness by being more comfortable and comforting!
Some thoughts on taking responsibility for your 50%:
Quote: I hope this doesn't sound pat but I honestly hold myself 100% for my contribution to the problems in our M and 0% responsible for HIS contributions. that sounds a lot more definitive than it really is, doesn't it?
I've always been a self-critical person (ok, I've always been a critical person -- self and otherwise!) so even pre-bomb I felt like I took responsibility for my role, etc. What was missing, though (pre-bomb and pre-db) was the acceptance that MY way was in fact NOT the only way to do things and I completely missed the fact that I had hurt my h in a hundred small ways that had contributed to our issues. BUT, how he "manifested" his pain, hurt, whatever, was truly his responsibility.
I'm not explaining this well!
I guess my point is that there came a point while I was DB'ing where I could CLEARLY and HONESTLY see that while I wasn't responsible for h's a, or even for his lying (his response of choice), I had contributed significantly to his pain. Now, his pain relief of choice was his responsibility -- and it could have taken a number of forms -- LOTS of them more healthy than the ones he chose -- but the contribution to getting him to that point of pain was partly mine.
Divorce Remedy helped me get to the point of understanding how I had contributed because it forced me to really scrutinize h's complaints about our M and my actions that contributed to them. "Relationship Rescue", "Men are From Mars" and "Love is Letting Go of Fear" were also instrumental in my understanding some of the more subtle ways (well, subtle to me!) that I had hurt my h.
So...one of the things that I was going to post on your thread was that I was totally caught up in the trap of thinking that because OTHERS were "outraged" by some of the things that my h did (this was actually way before the A) that I must be RIGHT and he must be WRONG. I would frankly stop listening to what other people think...it's a real trap.
And then I would realize that it's not about DESERVE and it's not even about RIGHT and WRONG. Does your behavior justify his behavior. Does his behavior justify yours? Who the heck knows? But it SURE IS a cycle right now that one of you has the chance to break.
Here's what has worked for me....
I take 100% responsibility for working on my crap as often as I can...and, if in the process, h works on his crap too, well all the better.
Work on your trust issues and perhaps he'll work on lying. Either way...you come out the winner because you have addressed the only part you can control.
Another way to view it...I wasn't sure if my M was going to survive or not...but I had to work on the stuff I was bringing to the table because I can promise you that it gets carried with you regardless of the R you're in...I strongly suspect, Karen, that you'd find yourself with similar issues next time around...not because you "deserve" it but because you haven't decided to break the cycle.
Do absolutely everything you can to heal yourself and I think that h will do his own work too.
Thoughts on waiting for the WAS to “own up”:
Quote: Did you expect him to own up to his share? Or to say he was sorry, etc.? Or is that not worth thinking about? Did he blame you outright?
It's not that it's not worth thinking about...it's just that you're expending precious energy on stuff you can't control. I did not expect him to "own up" to his share...part of focusing on me and my behaviors and not him is also about dropping the rope the sense of "you gotta do xyz".
I also didn't make his offering up an apology a condition of my changing and/or a condition of my forgiving him. That's not to say that I didn't yearn for an apology or hope like heck to get one someday...but more to suggest that I didn't say to myself -- "I'll do xyz but no more until he acknowledges his contribution".
Now, note that I'm certainly NOT perfect at any of the above but when I get "stuck" in feeling self-righteous or feeling as though I don't want to work anymore without something from him I tend to stay stuck "internally" as opposed to acting out with him. I may actually pull away a bit, regroup, take some time for myself but I don't get aggressive with him or say "hey, what about your crap" -- I find that that just doesn't work for us.
Other point I'd make is that acknowledging that h doesn't process or articulate stuff in the same mode that I do has been a big relief and a big help.
h did not blame me for his A -- he told me it had nothing to do with me, in fact -- but he did offer up some reasons as to why he was in pain that had to do with me. I think that my h recognizes that he was responsible for his choices but that we were both responsible for where our M was at...
I had forgotten about this!:
Quote: So at one critical point last night I was certain I would be posting to you all a "had a major, horrible backslide last night" post...instead...thanks to the wonderfulness of h and a wee bit of DB'ing, I'm posting another "made another strong step forward" post.
h had school last night. I worked a bit late and then went to the grocery store. I had just gotten home and was making dinner when he got home. It was kind of whirlwind.
He told me how excited he was about my decision to leave work. He's completely supportive which is great. thing is, after making some mental steps yesterday about quitting, I may be changing my mind back. I told h that I didn't want him to be disappointed if I decided to stay...that I was trying to decide what to do.
We started a more in depth conversation about it and I told him that I had been yearning to quit for a while now but had always convinced myself that I COULDN'T. Yesterday was the first time when I allowed myself to believe that I COULD. That I was the only thing standing in my way. And, once I had that realization, the desire to quit seemed to ebb a bit -- I said to him "once I decided I could do it, had the freedom to do it, I didn't feel as strong a pull anymore".
He seemed perplexed by that. Scrunched up his face a bit (my projection?), said he didn't think he'd ever felt that way.
I can't remember what exactly he SAID but I felt as though he was kind of picking at me for potentially changing my mind.
So out popped "well, you've changed your mind about things. You once wanted to end our marriage. To get a divorce. Remember? I feel like you are judging me for this decision."
I didn't say it in an angry tone. But I was HORRIFIED as soon as it was out of my mouth.
Where the heck did THAT come from??? And what was my point in bringing THAT up? Goodness -- it was awful.
His face closed down. His eyes got dark. He said "I don't understand what that has to do with anything and I don't want to talk about it anymore."
I said "please don't do that. Don't pull away. I'm sorry I said it."
He said "I want to watch the game."
So, even though my heart was cracking I left and gave him space. When the game was over I came back up and said "I don't even know what point I was trying to make and I'm incredibly sorry that I said that."
He responded "I don't give a crap what you do with your job. I was just trying to talk with you about it."
I said "yes, I know".
I retreated to cry in the other room.
I seriously was dismayed by what I had said and also my use of the word "judging" with him.
Not a minute later he came to the room. He said "honey, stop crying, stop feeling badly. stand up and give me a hug." He continued "please, stop making yourself feel badly about this. I can't see you this way. There's nothing that you could ever say that should make you feel this badly about yourself." Then he leaned down and whispered in my ear "I don't want a divorce."
Sigh.
I have been waiting to hear those words for more than a year and a half. It may seem absurd given all the positives in my sitch but h had never reconfirmed his desire to stay married verbally. But now he has.
He asked me to come sit with him while he studied. So I did.
I'm feeling overwhelmed with good luck and gratitude. His reactions to me are unbelievably positive and thoughtful.
As for "things that don't work" -- the conversation had quite a few negative elements (all my doing) -- it was late, he was watching tv, I was emotional, I brought something loaded up that actually had little to do with what was going on, I was reactive, I made negative judgements about his intent, I was defense...blah, blah.
thank goodness I had a few points scored up!
As for the comment itself -- I think it was a horrible combo of reacting emotionally to my lunch with mom, a dinner with an old friend the other day, my work sitch and then feeling like h wasn't hearing that I wasn't sure what I wanted to do but that I was concerned about his reaction AND that I wanted some time to mull things over.
Anyway -- no excuses -- just an attempt to understand how I let myself get caught in that web!
Thoughts on “power” and what it may (or may not) mean:
Quote: OK, can we call you the "Brain Pickee"? Have you ever contemplated giving up "power" by changing YOUR behaviors and H not owning up to his own mistakes/actions? A woman at work thinks that I am giving my H too much benefit of the doubt and that I shouldn't blame only myself. I don't blame only myself, but blaming him isn't getting me anywhere, is it? Were you afraid of being a doormat by forgiving him for A and the like?
Karen -- Hey, I thought you were going to stop talking to those well-meaning friends
I have a thousand thoughts about answering your question...let's see if I can get them out serially
I have certainly had my share of moments of doubt or feeling worried that I was somehow condoning or giving an OK to infidelity by the way that I have approached my sitch. I have also had flashes (sometimes lasting a LONG time) of anger, resentment, worry, blame, etc. I'm certain that there were times when I feared that I was setting myself up, being weak, whatever.
But the crux and tone and foundation of my DB'ing and the way I'm choosing to live my life and be in the marriage is about trying to focus my energies on the places I can control -- that is, me and my behaviors.
Power? Heck, I had plenty of POWER for the first 7 years of my m. and we both paid dearly for it. I am infinitely happier NOW that I've come to realize that being an equal partner with my husband means being as respectful as I can of who he is as a person, an individual and not viewing his gains as my losses and visa-versa.
How do you lose, karen, by making yourself the best, most whole, most integrated, most compassionate person you can be? How does your focus on improving YOU and taking responsibility for what you're bringing to the table in anyway make him more powerful than you are? Have the upper hand? I honestly don't think it's a zero-sum game, Karen, where what you concede he grasps etc.
I have to admit that I've surprised myself, even, by realizing that I don't HAVE to gate my progress on h's willingness to work on his own stuff (which, amazingly, he's clearly picked up and worked on on his own). It's a fundamental principle of DB'ing but it also shows up in so much else I've read or listened to -- "Your buddha nature" (kornfield), "the four agreements" and "the mastery of love" (ruiz), etc.
I don't want power anymore, Karen, over my h or my m. It was a false sense of it anyway because in the end, his desire to leave left me feeling mighty powerless. Now, though, we've each got more harmony than we know what to do with...and that's much more powerful.
Ah, yes…visiting the planet of the apes!:
Quote: In honor of h, I would like to add another phrase to our lingo -- akin to "itchy butt" -- I will call it "Maybe he's visiting the Planet of the Apes"
The story...sometime over the weekend, h and I were in the car coming back from the movies. We had spent a lot of time together that day -- had fun, some intimate moments, etc, and were heading home after seeing something or other (I can't remember!). Anyway, I was driving and h was sitting beside me -- looking deep in thought. I was silent. I was thinking "gosh, what is he thinking about? He looks so serious! Is it me? We spent so much time together today! Is it XYZ?"
Finally, h breaks the silence and says "I've just figured out a significant plot hole in the movie 'The Planet of the Apes'. Well, besides the obvious plot holes of time travel and a planet inhabited by ape-like men." He then proceeded to tell me the results of his deep thoughts.
My h is totally adorable. Totally clever. And sometimes when he's lost in thought he's NOT ruminating on me, our m, etc. Sometimes he's just visiting the planet of the apes.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
