Wow! Contact with the FIL after so long - what a big event! How did that go?
I imagine that you still may have to draft up the 2nd wedding chapter. There's plenty of time, and your sitch has some sizable positive changes coming about. It wouldn't surprise me in the least.
Your outfit sounds great! You have such character - no wonder he's drawn back to you. I hope your outing goes well.
Contact with my FIL went well. We talked for a bit on msn and then he went. I didn't know who he was to start with as he was using a screen name and I said 'Who are you?'
My own update I don't think is good but my H probably thinks it went okay. He seemed pretty oblivious to my negative feeling anyway and I don't know whether I'm relieved or whether it just further compounds my feeling that I am no longer important.
I went on the bus as I said and called him on my cell phone to let him know when I would be arriving.
The bus station is right next to the court house so he told me to meet him outside court. We both laughed, it was pretty funny.
Went to the court house like he said and waited a couple of minutes. I haven't seen that building since I lost my kids almost exactly a year to the day. It's a criminal court as well as a civil court so that made it worse. Rapists and murderer's go to the same place I went. They called me the respondent but they should have re-named that defendant.
Anyway, I got to his car and got in. The kids were all jumping up and down, giving me butterfly pictures and said they'd just been to the castle and had lunch there.
This made me feel worse as we got married at the castle. I just thanked them for the pictures and made no comment. I didn't really feel like going to H's house so we went and bought a drink in town which I paid for.
I commented on the inside of H's car - it looks like a spaceship. There is no ignition key, you switch the car on by inserting a plastic card into this slot. The gear stick is up on the dash board near the steering wheel. There is no brake pedal. You brake by pulling this cord on the right hand side of the steering wheel.
Next to the clock and fuel gage is almost like a mini computer. When you get into the car, it says 'please insert card' on this screen in front of you and it shows a diagram of the car and whether you have left a door open or not.
It is very futuristic. I commented on how it looked like a spaceship. I saw this red button near me and said 'What's that for, the eject the XW button?' Then I pretended to press the red button and get 'fried'
H and the kids thought that was funny. I was laughing myself at that point.
We drove to the ballet class but were early so we sat outside talking. Then came the first really low point. H said 'I know you don't want to know this, but your mother's husband was taken to hospital last night with chest pain and breathing difficulties.' I snapped at him 'You're right, I don't want to know.' But then I thought since he'd said I'd check up on his symptoms.
He said chest pain, sweating, unable to get his breath, grey coloured skin.
I said 'That's a heart attack.' He said they didn't know yet, but I said it was. Inside I was thinking if he goes, she'll be on her own and then I will be the first one to slam the door in her face if she comes sobbing to me. Not so strong on your own, are you?
I didn't say this because it's bitchy so I said nothing. I honestly don't care, no matter how shocking other people might think that is. I admit to what I really feel instead of the things I am supposed to feel.
We went into class and watched Lulu's ballet. She took my arm and offered to help me walk on the way in which was sweet for a 5 year old.
She is the oldest in the class and will be going up into the next class soon. H gave up his seat for me, which was nice, but then he introduced me as 'Lucia's mother' instead of Jo, and that really pissed me off badly. I am so sick of play acting whenever we are around people and pretending to be separated all the time. I told him to introduce me as Jo and what does he do? 'Lucia's mother' - arggghhh!!!!!!!!!
Just give everyone a public service anouncement that I am non-custodial and we are divorced, then - but keep the rest of it a secret, why don't you. I nearly walked out then but wanted to see the ballet so I stayed and said nothing as usual.
After the ballet H said we couldn't get chips because he was broke as he just paid �600 for a sunroof for his car, so I offered to do dinner like we were supposed to on Friday. He accepted.
In the car on the way back to mine, dd1 (9 yrs old) pipes up that she wants to get her ears peirced so I explained to her that when I was 7 I had this done an they got infected and I was told to close them up after 6 weeks of pain. I told her to wait till she's 13 at least.
H then said 'okay but I don't see what difference age makes, it's up to her what she does with her body.' I tried to say that as parents we are supposed to provide direction and at any rate I hate seeing earings on little kids.
He said that was my view and he didn't want to be controlling of them. I thought 'you do it to me all the time so why not?' but I didn't say anything. We got into minor disagreement over the earrings thing and I felt really hopeless because he doesn't want anyone to help him raise them, not even me. He only calls me their mother so he doesn't have to call me wife or partner or by my name.
He started on about how EX-OW's teenage kids turned out okay and she didn't restrict what they could do. How bloody dare he compare me to her!
I lost my cool and said that ex-ow had had 4 husbands, 3 people that she lived with and now this latest bloke. For the whole of her kids lives, she has dragged them from one man to another and I'm surprised they're not nuts. I said I wasn't taking mothering advice from her.
He responded with 'I don't see why you can't be friends with her, I will always be friends with her.' I thought 'In that case you've just lost your W' but I said nothing. I pointed out to him that the woman testified against me in court and that he made up his entire family situation for the court so I thought it was unreasonable to expect me to be friends with her.
How many men do you know would actually EXPECT me to be friends with their EX-OW who flipping testified against me as well as sleeping with my H? I mean, I am trying my hardest to forgive, I am trying to show unconditional postive regard, I give him my friendship, money, time, love, sex, meals etc and he still expects more from me?
I sometimes feel the level of what he expects from me is simply unobtainable, esp. given the little I get back from him.
He's lucky I'm even speaking to him, never mind anything else. I don't want a M with her in it, even on a friendship level.
We got back to my house and he went in the kitchen and helped himself to some mugs to make coffee. I went in the bathroom and pretended to use the toilet because I needed to re-group.
Kids asked to do Muzzy Spanish so I put the DVD on for them and they all (including H) watched it. H is learning Spanish too.
I went in the kitchen and started cooking. To be honest I was glad I didn't have to be near him.
H and kids ate their meals in the living room, on the sofa. I sat with my plate on the floor as I really didn't want to sit near him.
After dinner he said (all cheerful and nice). 'Well thanks for the meal, hope you liked the ballet, it was interesting.' I just said 'Yes' and nothing else.
Then they left.
DD4 has now gone to bed and I've been sitting here crying and playing 'Just Walk Away' by Celine Dion and 'I'm Walking Away' by Craig David over and over again.
I feel like I am on the verge of becoming a WAW and I wanted to send him an email and just say 'I've had it' but of course I haven't.
I will do nothing and just not contact him. If he doesn't do something ASAP to make me feel vaguely important, that's how it will stay.
((((((Jo)))))) I'm sorry! I know you were worried about how things would go and there it went.
I can see your hurt about not being a higher priority for H right now. Sounds like its time to distance and to pull him back to you. With X-OW in the house, H hasn't really had time to himself to deal with life without you recently. I imagine she's still helping him with your children.
Try the 24hr rule before doing anything drastic, okay? With your BDay coming up soon, perhaps sit quiet and see what happens. Hopefully, H will rise to the occasion then.
Jo, try to avoid those cheeseless tunnels (from 'Who moved my cheese'). Seems like your mother and his odd insistence that you be friends with everyone regardless of their treatment of you are two such tunnels. Rather than going down the tunnel, say s/t like "It hurts me when you keep placing my feelings and needs below others'." or "Let's not talk about that. We're here to have fun."
In terms of the parenting issue, this is huge. You are so right that he needs to respect you more as a parent (thanks for the lessons on that front in my sitch!). Yet, try to be less reactive. Slow or temper this frustration a bit. Have ready scripts like "DD, your father and I need to discuss this later, and we'll get back to you about our decision." This communicates to the child that no splitting of parents will be allowed, and to H that he'd better start including you and compromising on parenting (the man has a big control issue, Jo). Let H know in private that he is parenting the children with you, not X-OW, and that he must remind himself of that as frequently as he finds himself discounting your presence in your DDs lives. They will never have another mother.
Jo, you are masterful at DBing. Stay focused on the present with an eye to your future goals!
I have now progressed to 'All Woman' by Lisa Stansfield
I'm not going to do anything because you shouldn't if it's not positive, but sometimes, just sometimes I feel even more repressed by NOT saying exactly what I think.
He's controlling with the children issues so shutting up makes me feel worse, but I know it'd wreck the DB'ing if I did, so I won't. Catch 22.
I have no doubt I could be a wife to him, but I have great doubt about could I be a parent WITH him? How can you be a mother if your H won't allow it? He would say he is letting me be a mum,but he never has since the day he took them.
My opinions are ignored at best and attacked at worst, even right down to the amount of time I wanted with my kids, hence the reason for the court battle and why it got so nasty.
I don't believe he has learnt anything from that. He still believes what he did was right and still would not increase my time with them and still, by all accounts, doesn't care for any of my opinions regarding them.
I know he took me to this ballet class because I am 'seeing' him. If it were to stop, I am sure this would too. This makes me feel resentful as my involvement with them shouldn't rest on my involvement with him.
I mean, when I asked why he hadn't jointly discussed sending the kids to my mother's, he said 'we weren't together then' - so that says it all really.
If this doesn't work out, I will get no say in how my kids are brought up and I might as well walk off on them again because what it the point when I can't do anything anyway??
I hope I will feel better in the morning.
He is due to visit Friday. It is my birthday on Saturday. I have not asked him to come over or asked him for any present etc.
I said jokingly a while back I wanted him to ML with me 3 times on that night but I don't reckon that is going to happen or even if I want it to so I am just going to have zero expectations for my birthday and let him offer something.
Quote: My own update I don't think is good but my H probably thinks it went okay.
Jo, I wish things went better. {{{{{JO}}}}}
About OW and her parenting skills, I am on your side. She is too liberal and not a good example for children to follow.
I think once OW moves out things will change. Andy will need to do more himself and most likely will have you more involved with the kids. Disagrements about ear piercing should be discussed at a later date between you and Andy with out DD being there.
Andys car, is it too expensive for him considering his income? I hope the car payments will not restrict how much he can spend on a house. I see young people getting in debt early in a marriage and it causes problems with the relationship. MY D34 is in that position now and is in credit counseling for 5 years.
Firstly, I wish you a Happy Birthday this saturday. I'll be out of town for a couple of days and so I send out my wish a few days earlier.
We all have our own problems and issues to work out. Today I am at a very very low point and I just cried alot. The day when I cry no more, I think it'll be worse.
Your H wants you to be the wife but not let you be the real mother - what an issue. May I ask you had lost the custody of your children and will you get them back if you remarry with Andy? Any conditions there? Does it mean if you live together with Andy but not legally married, you are still a biological mother who is not supposed to see and take care of your children whenever you are available? I wish you feel better soon.
Kitty
my last thread : Lost in his MLC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=957116&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
Sorry for the bad interaction. I know that would frustrate the heck out of me also. My ex does the same sort of thing...her way is the best because she's primary caregiver. She sometimes acts like the kids are her property and they are on loan to me during visitation.
Is there any way to express your frustration about this? Can you indicate that you want to feel like a mother in more than just name, but by action? That you want your feelings about child rearing taken into account?
Are all of these apparent slights on purpose? Or are you responding to percieved slights that your H is not even aware he's doing? It's hard not to be angry with this stuff, but have you looked hard at the sitch and put yourself in your husbands shoes to see if he's intentionally doing these things? Is there another way to get him to recognize that you have a say in your children's lives?
I'm struggling for suggestions. My only one is if you haven't told him how this all makes you feel then you should tell him. If he already knows and doesn't care then I don't know what to say. I don't think dropping out of your kids lives is the answer. Show him through actions that you are a good mother and can handle this as well as some ex-W or him.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
I liked LA's comments. I just thought of a decent idea on the parenting thing: acting 'as-if' not in terms of couplehood but in terms of motherhood. Act as if you are their mother. Act as if you are successfully co-parenting with a man who can compromise or parent WITH you.
You'll need to take the lead on this, and to stay patient during these exchanges. But never disagree with him in front of the kids or allow him to challenge your mothering. Use this script, "Let's talk about this alone. Kids, stay here and (play, watch a movie..). Your father and I will talk about this and get back to you." This is you insisting on adulthood roles for the two of you, while he's stuck in "I'd like to be their cool "anything goes" buddy-friend-dad. You know better - that's not so great over the long run for the kids.
Feel free to insist that decisions are mutually decided, while allowing some difference of opinion (you taught me that, right? ). And consider which battles are worth fighting for (yes to permanent, heavy things like child tattoos, piercings, schooling, dating; not so much regarding lesser things like shirt color, type of cereal....).
How can you pamper yourself today, Jo? Sounds like you may need a nice dose of that?
Jo, I did not see you post today. I am a little concerned that your PMA is down today. Eventhough the trip to the ballet class and other activities did not meet your expetations, I can see why your PMA might be down. The ballet event was a small step to involve you more in the kids activities. You are right to feel left out though.
Quote: I don't believe he has learnt anything from that. He still believes what he did was right and still would not increase my time with them and still, by all accounts, doesn't care for any of my opinions regarding them.
1. I don't believe he has learnt anything from that=most likely true. 2. He still believes what he did was right=most likely true. 3. by all accounts, (he)doesn't care for any of my opinions regarding them=most likely not exactly true. More along the lines of his way is best because he has an inveastment in time / the process / steps he developed on his own.
Quote: If this doesn't work out, I will get no say in how my kids are brought up and I might as well walk off on them again because what it the point when I can't do anything anyway
JO, it might be true, but i can see you are projecting here (might be borrowing trouble). I suspect things will go better after you two live together and can connect more on day-to-day activities in many areas of your life, not just child care issues.
Even if Andy never lived with you, you will always be the kids mom/mum.
RE your birthday. I hope it goes better. It seems like the time you are with Andy and the kids are not involved, you have a better time. Am I right? I might suggest for now, so you get to boost your PMA, mostly work with Andy and make the kids secondary. This is with the thought of making your marrital relationship stronger so the mothering relationship eventually gets stronger when you two are living in the same house.
Would Andy go to counseling regarding the differences about child care issues?
Eventhough the trip to the ballet class and other activities did not meet your expetations, I can see why your PMA might be down. The ballet event was a small step to involve you more in the kids activities. You are right to feel left out though.