I agree with Martha BUT I also think that perhaps you are a being a bit hard on your W.
I know you are putting in a lot and how difficult it is, but I don't agree with the previous poster who said 'what's she putting in?' - she is getting a D, so right now she doesn't feel the obligation to put anything in.
You are DB'ing, not her. She is the WAW, therefore if you want to save your R, it will be you doing most of the work. That is tough but true. It is no sense in thinking what you're 'entitled' to as the last poster said.
Being 'entitled' never got anyone anywhere. For a long time my WAH hated me to death. He couldn't give a monkey's about the R. I had to do all the work to get where I am now and it's only been very recently he's started giving anything back. Even now I would say I do 80% of the R work. And it's worth it for the 20% I get back.
There's one way to hurt a woman the most and that's through her child. She feels vulnerable and scared. She lacks confidence. She chose you for the father of her child so she's looking to you for confirmation that she is a good mother.
If you start being picky at what she does, she will just think that you think she is a rubbish mother and that will really hurt her.
I remember once I took my dd to the seaside for the day and it was on his contact day because I don't have a car and that was the only day the bus went.
We had a great time but when I got back, he rang me with a load of verbal abuse and I ended up in tears which is why I changed my phone number. I know that you're a great guy and you wouldn't do that, but try to think that stuff happens in life and it isn't always possible to stick to a schedule.
W probably told you about taking him away because she wanted to involve you in the experience in a limited way and get confirmation that she is trying to be a good mom.
I'm sure she will offer you another time if you say to her that you would like to have S5 again.
You can win this woman through your child. He is the link between you.
Don't let petty disagreemnts over him or your parenting styles get in the way of your R.
Said as a non-custodial mother who loves my husband and wanted anything for him to think I was a good mummy.
I had all these arguments, it just takes you further from your goal.
Jo: Points well taken. My point was that sometimes it is so one-sided. I agree with you in principle, that is the WAS that has contol of what he/she is willing to give back and that we are not entitled to anything, but I do not think that mitgates the frustration some spouses experience. It is a long row to hoe. Although we are faced with challenges and setbacks and frustration, we continue to do the best we can so that we may persevere and right the relationship. I sometimes wonder if we are not the stronger one's of the relationship?
Thanks Martha, M, and Jo for your posts! All very thoughtprovoking.
Martha and M, I appreciate your blessing my grumpiness. I truly feel like I woke up on the wrong side of the Murphy bed today. Probably should avoid W if that doesn't change.
Jo, you are I are on the same wavelength, and thank you for calling me out if you disagreed w/something I did/said. I truly need that and welcome it.
Note that I didn't bring this up to her. She walked in on me 'fixing' his hair at the sink (I needed water to wash some of it out). As she bolted away, I knew she was upset, but had to rush off with him as we were late for school and work.
Here's a brief back-n-forth b/t W and I via email this am: Hi W, I've thought twice about some things, and would like to keep the old dishes and the kitchen table. So lets not sell them, okay. Just need to be as fiscally responsible as I can be if I'm to get some other things accomplished.
I wasn't trying to insult you regarding how you fixed up S5's hair. He's being teased a bit about it, as when there's a lot of mousse or gel on his hair, it dries really shiny and plastic-like and other kids are noticing. I tend to massage his scalp/hair with warm water first, then work in a small pea-sized amt of gel, spreading it throughout his hair before combing it. I konw that your mornings are busy and you have tons on your plate. Just wanted to mention that for him. Thanks, Gabe
W responded: Ok on the furniture. Thanks for the input on Isaiah. I had no idea and feel bad that I caused him to be teased. I replied: No worries...hope you're not beating yourself up over this. Just typical kid stuff that he'll forget in a few hrs. I'm liking our more open communication.
Thanks for thinkg to take him to NASA. That'll hopefully be fun for both of you. Take care, Gabe
W called and left a friendly message during my IC session at noon today, so I imagine she is okay with this. I'll see her early this eve at his swim lesson.
Jo, your read that I'm still too hard on W is accurate. I was vocally picky at her mothering early in his life, and now I need to further adjust my thinking and actions. I think I've rooted out the critical words, yet I need to look at my nonverbal stuff and to truly be okay with some of her difference. Jo wrote:
Quote: You can win this woman through your child. He is the link between you.
This is huge, and I am very glad that you pointed this out.
On another issue, IC is starting to stall. I'm doing so much more work here than I am in there. The therapist is a good source for reality checks but is not quite offering what I need. He is too individual-focused, looking out for my welfare, regardless of the cost to the M or R, and I need someone at least friendly to the idea that I want my W back. I'm likely going to start with another therapist early this summer.
M, I agree with Jo that the nature of DBing is to be carrying the load of R work, until the WAS recommits. Its just the nature of our situation. There's truly no other way but to shoulder the workload. Or to quit. I'm okay with this for now, and am using to help me practice a better way of being in general. Kind of a personal growth bootcamp, if you would.
Your e-mail was well-worded and obviously did what you intended which to open communication. If I offended you, I apologize. I guess I let my passing frustration bleed over onto your situation. I agree with you in that we need to shoulder this burden single-handedly if we want our M or R to succeed. I'm getting there. I need a little coaxing still because I am still anxious of the outcome. But, I know one thing: I will not give up. Patience, quiet self-determination, and will of steel is what I hope to gain from this,using your words,
Don't apoogise, I'm sure Gabriel isn't offended. Everyone is entitled to speak their mind on here and I can understand your frustration.
I was just trying to point out to both of you that thinking about how much you are putting in as opposed to your spouse will not do anything to bring them back and only make you resentful.
Your emails were good. Well done. Apologising and warm but non-emotional and to the point.
I love your son's name - how very biblical, it goes very well with your name.
My baby who died, he was due on Boxing Day 03 and I said to H if it's a boy we should call him Gabriel after the Angel. He looked at me funny and said no way are we naming our baby after an Angel He picked out Gianni for a boy, after my father. I was kind of flattered that he'd want to name him after my dad. We never thought of a name if it was a girl.
My dd who is 5, she's called Lucia which is Latin for 'the light' and I think that's really unusual. I chose it and call her Lulu, which apparently is also American Indian for little rabbit'
Anyhow, I'm rabbiting on as usual
I wanted to write some things to think about with your son, hope you don't mind.
1. Every time you are hard on your W, even if only because she notices rather than you saying anything, she will be hurt and it moves you away from possible reconcilation.
2. Being critical of her mothering is as major as being critical of the way she sleeps with you or the clothes she wears. You can put across your point without being harsh.
3. Everyone has different parenting styles, so it's obvious that she will do some things differently to you. Re-frame your mind so you see it as complimenting each other's skills rather than working in opposition. For instance, she sometimes gets cross with S5 and is passionate about stuff, you provide the other end of the scale so you balance each other out which makes things even for your son.
4. Without her, you would not be a father. Without him, you'd have no reason to see your W. He is your joint reason. He will cement your union if you don't fight over him.
5. If you do a great job of saying what a great mom she is, her self-esteem will go up, she'll get less crabby with S5 and she'll start giving you more love points and may eventually fall in love with you.
When you complimented me once on being a good mother, I felt great, and that was from a stranger, so think what affect it would have on her.
6. It's 180 for you if you refrain from being critical over S5, an action which is likely to draw her closer.
He is the glue that binds you together. Prove to her that you are glad she is your W and you are glad she gave birth to S5, and she'll probably be begging you for some of the old baby dancing
Not wishing to cause offence, I simply think the odd kick up the arse does wonders for motivation ocassionally
Thanks Jo, and no offense taken (nor from you previously, M).
I like the complementing idea. Its a good way to view our differences toward S5. And I truly want to be kinder to her regarding her mothering. I think I'm already starting to do this somewhat successfully - hence, her calling me up to talk about parenting stuff. Mostly, I think my validating of her upsets or her effort has been pulling more contact from her. I would love to see her self-esteem go up, and I would be more than happy to help feed that via her mothering.
W chose S5's name - I really wanted Raphael at first - another arcangel's name (I know, very self-focused! ), but she won me over after I read his writings in the Bible.
W called me again just before I ran over to meet her to watch S5 in his last swim lesson for the term. She was just checking in about summer camps and was dividing up the investigation/registering work with me. So he's definitely our 'cement' or bond. She was pleasant at the lesson, yet distant, I think feeding off my funk today. I feel very tired, so I'm going to exercise early and go to bed earlier. I probably need close to 7.5 hrs of sleep and only getting about 5, and thats not going to cut it longterm.
I appreciate the kick up the arse, Jo (No, not that way! ) If it helps me and W do some baby dancing, I have to send you a more formal thank you!
Gabriel- Ioavva has given you some great advice and now I don't know what to add...lol
Just keep hanging in there, and rememeber that we ALL have bad days. You learn from your mistakes and deal with them better the next time to keep from making the same ones.
There are going to be so many ups and downs through all this and that is why we are all here for each other. The one big thing that stuck out to me though that was said and is sooooooooo true is this..........WE have to do ALL the work right now for our R's.
That is just the way it has to be if you want your M back. Keep that in mind. Don't forget it. If you think that W should be contributing at this point then that is having expectations and you know the rule....NO EXPECTATIONS.
I also feel that you might be getting impatient a little as we all do. It tends to frustrate us badly. Try not to let it. You are doing great and have come so far. Keep it up!
Hey there Martha! Yep, I'll keep using this BB to vent once in awhile. I sure am open to critiquing though, so have at it when you see it.
An emotional day at work today. I met with students graduating next week, and received many compliments. This group was aware of my upcoming D (not any more than that), so it moved me quite a bit when they commented on my resilience and softening after things started (I briefly told them about it happening after they became very alarmed about my obvious weight loss/sleep troubles/distraction last Fall). They noted how I've become 'lighter', having a 'greater sense of humor', and becoming the 'most real' instructor that they had in our program. All very good feedback for me to think about. Instruction involves many 'goodbye's' yet I like to capture them in the mindset of continued Rs merely transformed by a graduation.
No communications from W. I intend to stay "gray" (Jo, I mean "grey" ) for the next several days. My PMA is up. Worked out again at the gym last night and ran another 3 miles.
Goals for the next 2 months: 1) Maintain 'friendliness' with W while crossing D threshold. A key to this will be displaying happiness for her positives, regardless of whether they include me. 2) Further improving cooperative parenting. Letting her continue to use me as a sounding board for parenting stuff while avoiding the appearance of critiquing her. 3) Self-Improvement: Physical - maintain weight at this nice trim level, but move into body sculpting; further enhance diet; Sleep - more!; Social/Hobby - more adult friendship outings; carve out more time for guitar/start kayaking; Spiritual - allow more time for readings/prayer; Career - shift to more publication writing; Financial - try to pay off all c.c. debt before moving back into the house in August. 4) Family - plan some trips to see my family with S5 over the summer. Maybe camp with S5 at Yellowstone or near Badlands.
He picked out Gianni for a boy, after my father.