Quote: I mean if you weigh 300 lbs. or you refuse to do anything but missionary position in candlelight while murmuring sweet nothings, it probably is an issue
LOL, thankfully, no to both of those! I could stand to lose about 20 lbs. My insecurity about my weight is just that – my insecurity. When I mentioned to H that I wanted to lose weight, his remark was,”But you’re not fat.” He’s been pretty consistent about this. He is an athletic person, and I am a nerd, so he does encourage me to exercise and lead a healthy lifestyle, but it has never been in reaction to my weight. Fwiw, he likes the curves!
On the subject of emotions and sex – I’m trying to come up with the right words to describe our situation. It is true that my intense emotional involvement in what he considers a purely physical activity used to be a turn-off for him. However, I think we have both made movement on this. My attempts at exploring and defining my sexuality independent of him have made me a better lover, and also a little less inclined to look for the emotional connection in a very specific set of actions. He has, after hearing what I have to say on the subject, become appreciative of the fact that it is an emotional experience for me. He is now respectful of this. There are days when he slows down and spends a lot of time in making that connection, before, during and after sex. So while he still relishes the raunchy encounters, he is not setting higher standards for me, or in any way making me feel as though it is a moving target. The increase in variety, mostly in the ‘tone’ of the encounters, has definitely been a big plus for us both.
Quote: I think #7 is probably most important of all, especially if you realize that it applies to you as well as him. Circumstances change and you may find yourself addressing this issue again but from a different perspective and your H won't necessarily be able to count on you continuing happy with the status quo.
This is very true. We have, in fact, talked about this. Back when we used to fight about the sex issue all the time, H would often end a discussion saying that he saw no point in talking about this because we would still be fighting about it in 10 years. I asked H a few weeks ago whether he thought we would still be fighting about this subject in 10 years (fully expecting that he would say no). Ack, big mistake! He answered that he didn’t know. So I went looking for validation/guarantees and it turned into an argument because he felt I wanted a certain answer from him. After an hour of going over some old ground and some new ground, we both agreed that there are no guarantees. It is entirely possible that I may decide to delve back into this issue in ten years, and require something more or different that he may or may not be able to deliver. It is entirely possible that he will be in the midst of a mid-life crisis in ten years and start having affairs, in a quest for variety. No, there are no guarantees. My hope is that in ten years, we would have built another ten years of good history, of mutual caring and compassion, of emotional maturity, and will not do stupid things to hurt each other or our relationship.
Quote: Maybe I'm off-base, but I feel like there is an essential similarity between your sich, my sich and the sich of Julie. With your sich being the worst and Julie's being the best at the moment. The thing I can't figure out is what exactly is making the difference. Is Julie more differentiated than you or I or is her H simply less of a jerk than yours or mine?
Jenny wrote the above in Cally’s thread. I wanted to address it, but move it over here because I don’t want to hijack Cally’s thread.
I feel the urge to defend my husband. If, at any time, I have given the impression that he is a jerk, then I must apologize, for I would never use that word in connection with him. Sometimes, we present a very one-dimensional view of our relationships on this BB because we talk at great length about the sexual part of our relationship. Taken out of context, maybe it gives a very erroneous impression of the individuals or the relationship as a whole.
My H and I have had our differences and our difficulties, but even at our worst, we maintained a basic sense of respect and love for one another. We withdrew from each other, but we never resorted to name-calling or threats. Conflicts arose, but one of us always withdrew and we never dragged each other down into the mud.
I believe the context of our sexual relationship is very different from the context of Jen’s or Cally’s, even though the sexual part of it seems to have obvious similarities. My H and I share a number of values and we are very compatible when it comes to fiscal, professional, parenting and domestic matters. Financially, he is a rock. He is a highly educated professional and makes a very good living. He respects my choice to pursue a career, he respects my choice to work part-time now that our kids are so young. I know he would respect any choices I made in this regard, and we would work together to minimize the impact on our home life. He is an amazing father – not only because he gets down to their level and rolls on the floor with the kids, but he is fully capable of caring for them by himself, and often does so when I travel for work or go out with friends. He is very handy around the house, and constantly performs acts of service for me. He is an equal participant any way I look at it. He is my friend, and my intellectual companion. He is a smart, funny, easygoing, perceptive and genuine person. We have very different tastes and interests in a variety of things, but I enjoy his presence and respect his views. He gets along wonderfully with my family. In fact, my mother thinks he is the best thing since sliced bread, and I’ve often heard her telling people that she has a wonderful son-in-law and that her daughter is very lucky.
This is the context of my marriage.
Yes, we had sexual incompatibilities and various other issues that eroded our connection. But deep down, his love for me and his commitment to me never faltered. For my part, I have always known that he is a man of integrity, even when I was unwilling to admit to my own fallacies and placed all the blame on him. I fell hard for him within days of meeting him, and 17 years later, he still has my heart.
Sexual problems don’t arise in a vacuum, nor do they resolve in a vacuum. Maybe context plays a bigger part than we realize.
Even though I used the phrase "less of a jerk", I didn't mean to imply that your H was a jerk or that you had given that impression. You have made it clear that your H "stepped up to the plate" when you took a stand on the sex issue. I guess I was trying to express that on a continuum of "stepping up to the plate" in order to resolve sexual problems that have a certain similarity, your H was making the best effort and Cally's the least at the moment.
The only thing you have ever posted about your H that IMO could be considered "jerky" is that you once, perhaps mistakenly, gave me the impression that your H prefers "quickies" even though he knows that you might have difficulty orgasming in that context.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Julie, Let me ask you this: What exactly bothers you about his porn use? I know you've talked about it here, but I think I forgot. Does it take away from his marital sex drive or not?
I think I too am getting your situation mixed up with Cally et al.
I'm with Jenny; he doesn't sound jerky at all. The only thing I would consider jerky is if a spouse is masturbating instead of ML to their partner.
Honeypot, whose mother loves my H more than me, too.
HP, FWIW, the Church's objection to porn isn't the porn per se, but the fact that it poisons the sexual relationship by encouraging the viewer to use his mate for sexual gratification rather than as a shared show of love, and because it objectifies (particularly women) as sex objects rather than as a whole person to be loved as a whole. After much consideration, I think I have to agree with the Church's position. I know in my case, it damaged our sexual relationship to a degree.
I read an article the other day which asserts that a person's brain is actually altered after watching porn. That it literally changes the shape and makeup of your brain! I have no idea if this is scientifically sound--I haven't looked up the actual study--but it was a fascinating read nonetheless.
I agree that it changes a relationship and the images are impossible to get outta your head, once they are there. I am not anti-porn per se, but it is not for me. Too easy to get hooked on..too accessible and enticing.
Intimacy is hard for me and that would only make it worse. Therefore, I've made a conscious decision to stay away from it. Plus, I happen to also agree with the Church's stance and it feels good to go along with it.
Quote: Julie, Let me ask you this: What exactly bothers you about his porn use?
Ah, thats the million dollar question. By the process of elimination, I have figured out what things about it don't bother me. I have no moralistic, philosophical or religious objections to it. I have no major insecurity issues about it - in other words, I don't agonize over how I couldn't possibly compete with the images he is looking at. I think what it boils down is what GGB said very nicely.
Quote: ...the Church's objection to porn isn't the porn per se, but the fact that it poisons the sexual relationship by encouraging the viewer to use his mate for sexual gratification rather than as a shared show of love...
This is it. This is what bothers me, because it takes away from the sharing and the connection. I've figured this much out. However, here's the crux of my confusion. I seek sex with H primarily as a pathway to intimacy and shared emotional connection, he seeks sex with me primarily for pleasure and release. From my viewpoint, the porn does detract from the goal and from his, it doesn't. This is why I want to tread lightly here, because we are approaching the issue from very different vantage points.
There was a very nice article that MrsNOP had posted the link to, that described the various pathways or reasons for sexual desire. My H has different reasons than me, neither are better or worse, they are just different. I think this caused a lot of friction in our sex life earlier, and I am trying to avoid that this time around.
Quote:
I know you've talked about it here, but I think I forgot. Does it take away from his marital sex drive or not?
Ah, I see I haven't presented facts clearly. No, it doesn't take away from his marital sex drive, it contributes to it. We are both at a very comfortable frequency at 2x a week. H initiates about 75% of the time, and there is no drama associated with it. We both masturbate quite infrequently these days. I have no problem with him MB as often as he wants, lol, as long as he keeps up the frequency with me. I actually don't mind if he looks at porn and masturbates, mostly it bothers me if he does that before we ML.
It's interesting to me that it bothers you more when your H looks at the porn before sex and it bothers me more when my H MBs with it. Maybe we could benefit from each other's POV.
If I was in the mood to "make love" it would bother me that my H was looking at porn in order to get aroused before sex, but since much of the time I am happy to just "f*ck" it's okay with me as long as it's not happening all the time or in the wrong context. For instance, I would have been appalled if after we shared a tender moment watching our wedding video on our anniversary my H felt the need to whip out the porn to get in the mood.
Generally, I think MB is a good thing, so I actually feel like I'm kind of psycho for getting upset about it. I think it has to do with the fact that for years my H led me to believe that he simply had very little physical drive at all. Therefore, last year when I discovered that he was MB on a regular basis though he wasn't having sex with me on a regular basis, it felt like a real betrayal of trust. I felt like a wife who had been doing her best to get by cheerfully on $20,000 a year because that was the best her H could do, who one day comes across a box of receipts that reveal that her H has really been making $40,000, but keeping most of the money for his own personal use.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: Julie, Why would he look at porn before you ML?
I have used my own equivalent of porn ( erotic novels) before ML. Typically, I would take a bath and read something racy in order to get myself going, esp if it was a scheduled sex nite. I don't do this anymore...I feel I have been able to let go of this crutch ( although it might be fun to do on occasion), due to a few factors; my own sense of confidence that my body will respond, a desire to feel more connected to H without the fantasy stuff thrown in, and better communication with H as to what arouses me coupled with his willingness to put it in action.
I am also curious as to why your H uses the porn before ML...does he feel he needs to added boost to make sure he is aroused? H and I have been going through this, and let me tell you, it has set off some insecurities in me, sending me back into Differentiation City.
