I was thinking that I would actually have to add a reason to your list.
Reason 6: Because sex is a fun and fascinating activity.
Sometimes you want to go fishing just because you like fishing, not because you're hungry for fish. This is the part of my drive which occasionally makes me think I should just get a "fishing buddy" and stop pestering my H so much.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Julie, to answer your question about why your list was helpful...
Most of my life I have not been one to just feel horny. I might for brief periods, but not consistently. And in past Rs, if I was upset about something, desire for sex went out the window. When I first started seeing current bf I interpreted the way I was feeling as "horny," but after reading your list, I think it was made up more of wanting reassurance of my attractiveness and desirability than actual horniness. And when I think about it, even these days, I lament the fact that we're not ML mostly because I want ML regularly so I can feel normal and okay about myself and also for #5: everyone else is doing it and I want to be doing it, too. I do get turned on by erotic literature, but don't usually take that desire to him. If he turned me down then, it would be REALLY aggravating. In the early part of our R, I got somewhat turned on by looking at him, but not anymore. Don't know if that's saturation or just hidden resentment (or a bit of both). So it was/is useful to examine these reasons and not just to put them together under "wanting sex." It's akin to figuring out why you're eating... physically hungry, emotionally hungry, bored, tempted by sight of food, etc.
Edited to add (after reading JJ's post): I guess that is my number one reason for wanting sex when I want it: it feels good.
And this is interesting... if we define "horniness" as sort of a pre-arousal state, where you're feeling a little bit of a sexual buzz, or a sexual hunger, and you go looking for a way to satisfy it... I can think about being sexual, not feel horny, but remember that it felt really good the last time, and thus be open to the experience. Sort of like you might have just eaten a huge meal and not be the least bit hungry, but you know that that piece of coconut cream pie in front of you will TASTE good, even if you have no HUNGER pangs to assuage.
Reason #7: Because it is a sin against the goddess to not make use of the wonderfully responsive multi-orgasmic body with which I was blessed. If rejected when I am initiating for this reason I feel like singing "You DON'T make me feel like a natural woman.".
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Interesting set of posts. I don't know your story but I do know your set of reasons for "desire" sounded eerily familiar to me. I realized too that my style of "initiation" also varies based on the reason. If I am working with reasons 1 or 2 I can initiate, feel good about it and it is a straightforward, pleasant thing. Usually, these intiations get positive results. When I initiate for the "less good" reasons that are accompanied by neediness I initiate in more tentative, tepid ways, am more easily dissuaded and hurt if turned away. IOW things go down hill very quickly if he doesn't provide the type of response I am looking for.
For me and others who don't really know your story what do you attribute your success to? What really helped? What kind of things do you know now that you wished you knew then?
Quote: For me and others who don't really know your story what do you attribute your success to? What really helped? What kind of things do you know now that you wished you knew then?
Hi Karen,
My story is pretty much here for everyone to read. Here are my threads:
I’ve posted a great deal about my thoughts, opinions and what I felt was working. But I think I left out one very big factor – my H decided that he was going to get into the trenches and work with me on this. In retrospect, I can see that my H did try many times over the years, in his own way, to address the sex issue. I was blinded to this because I was looking for a very narrow expression of his desire. So I may have presented things in a more black and white manner in my earliest postings. Indeed, the truth has many shades of gray.
We started out with him being the HD partner. We were both only 18 when we met, he was my first love and I his. From the early days, our mindsets about sex were different, he separated love and sex in a way that I did not. However, he was a horny 18 year old, and that helped smooth over the philosophical differences for many years. Eventually, we hit gridlock. Most of what happened after that is posted in the threads I listed above.
I recently asked H what was different about it ‘this time’. He said that he is emotionally ready to put in the effort required, because there is a lot more at stake now, the children in particular. He also mentioned something about a change in my attitude. I believe he is talking about a change in my feelings from those of entitlement – that he should desire me – to one of gratefulness – that he is making effort to want to want.
There is also an additional factor that I believe played into all this, timing wise. In February of last year, H’s brother’s wife died after a prolonged illness, leaving behind twin boys who are now 4 years old. H was distraught, understandably. We talked a great deal after this, about how precious our little family was, and how much we take for granted. H even expressed a desire for more physical closeness, not because he wanted it, but because he wanted to have a better marriage, and he knew sex was a big part of that for me. So when I came out of my post-partum induced LD phase, he was ready to get to work.
As for what things I know now that I wished I knew before…
1. H does not consider sex an expression of love. He does crave intimacy and moments of tenderness (his words), but sex is typically not the route to that for him. He is an AOS person, and enjoys various things that I now do for him, especially the back rubs that I give him.
2. In a way, he was as sexually frustrated as I. My insistence on intertwining sex and love limited my sexual expression greatly, and reduced his erotic gratification as a result.
3. He finds me sexually exciting. His libido, however, is intrinsic and exists outside of me and my appearance.
4. My weight is not an issue for him. However, my insecurity about it (and about myself in general) is.
5. I am much more aware of my own sexuality and desire pathways.
6. There is something to be said for delayed gratification.
7. There are no guarantees for the future, and asking him for that is an act of fusion.
I’m sure there are more, and I will add to this if I think of any. Having said that these are things that I wish I knew before, I doubt I had the emotional IQ to internalize them and it has taken some painful growth and self-awareness to get to this point.
Thanks for asking the question. It is nice to stop and assess. There are pathways that I see right now to greater intimacy. Sending him this list of threads would be one, lol! All in good time, though.
I continue to be struck by the fact that your sich seems quite similar to mine (except that you are handling it much better ). Of course mine does vary from yours in that my H has been more resistant (though perhaps this is due to me being more fused) and also the fact that my H has on occasion blamed my lack of erotic appeal directly for his LD (perhaps leading to greater fusion on my part?).
Quote: 2. In a way, he was as sexually frustrated as I. My insistence on intertwining sex and love limited my sexual expression greatly, and reduced his erotic gratification as a result.
I think you should not concentrate too much on this item as relevant to the problem. IMO it's a bit of a red herring, like the weight issue. I mean if you weigh 300 lbs. or you refuse to do anything but missionary position in candlelight while murmuring sweet nothings, it probably is an issue but OTOH this "reason" for LD, like the weight issue, can easily though perhaps subconsciously become a moving target or distraction. Years ago when my H suggested that this sort of thing might be the cause of his LD he would make suggestions like I should move more or grab his head while he was going down on me etc. This also led to the phase that I've posted about before where I found myself dragging toddlers into the video store on a weekly basis so I could rent porn in order to get my H turned on enough to f*ck me. I do think that the fact that my H is LD has made me a better lover in some ways. I used to be more "trance" style and now I'm more active. OTOH, I've found that there is a definite limit to how much adding variety or "raunch" can affect/improve the situation. I know I've previously mentioned the Updike quote to the effect of "When you find yourselves f*cking each other with vegetables, you know the relationship is over.".
I guess what I'm trying to say is I think some of the othr reasons you listed are more important in terms of your current success. I think #7 is probably most important of all, especially if you realize that it applies to you as well as him. Circumstances change and you may find yourself addressing this issue again but from a different perspective and your H won't necessarily be able to count on you continuing happy with the status quo. For instance, in my sich, five years from now I might find myself LD due to perimenopause (unlikely) or even more horny due to increased free time because my nest will be empty. Part of the reason I'm finding myself able to chill out a bit recently is I'm starting to lose my need to look for guarantees from my H and also, and perhaps more importantly, from myself.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
). Of course mine does vary from yours in that my H has been more resistant (though perhaps this is due to me being more fused) and also the fact that my H has on occasion blamed my lack of erotic appeal directly for his LD (perhaps leading to greater fusion on my part?).