This is my first visit to the MB. I found out 3 weeks ago that my wife of 10 years had been having an affair of phone sex and occasional visits to other cities for sex with an old affair partner of hers that she had known before we had met. I was shocked and angry and upset and hurt and all the other emotions you can imagine. I found out through a letter from the other partner's wife. The partner's wife had been friends with my wife in her former life and I had never met either of them. The partner's wife was also very hurt and angry when she found out about the affair.
I felt as if ten years of my life had been destroyed. I am still in the beginning stages of accepting what has happened. I am able to function on a daily basis in the job. I am not losing sleep, get plenty of exercise and don't drink too much. There is a lot of advice and support out there for people in my situation, although I had never imagined that infidelity was so widespread. I am in contact with two pastors at our church who have been very supportive and helpful, and who referred us to a very good marriage therapist. My wife has told me several times the affair is over; she has had no contact with the partner since the breakoff. She also has said several times that she is very sorry for the hurt that she caused me, that she thinks we have a good marriage and that she wants to help rebuild our marriage. These are just the facts. I am running on hope right now. I am now suspecting and fantasizing about things I had never thought about before. Especially troubling is imagining my wife and her partner in intimate sexual details in bed together. I understand that is something men do more than women; whatever, it is very hurtful and troubling. I am expecting this recovery process to last quite a long time, from the reading and the talking with therapist and pastors who have had experience with these things. I am now becoming familiar with flashbacks, obsessions, dreams, etc.
I would be interested if there are any men out there who have going through something like this.
Peace, TSInAtlanta
"The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places." - Ernest Hemingway, A Farewell to Arms, 1929.
Quote: I am now becoming familiar with flashbacks, obsessions, dreams, etc.
Yep the random thoughts are killer. They do get to be less. There are lots of "tricks" to stop the thoughts. Keeping busy is a good one (my house has never been so clean), like actually saying "Stop" outloud (dont try this in public) to make yourself stop. thinking about it does not help you get over it, it only makes it worse. I was plauged by random thoughts for about a month then they kinda slowed down. For me what hurt more than actual physicial A was the lying that lead up to it. I now dwell on that more than anything. Take an hour or so and go to a big book store and read a few of the self help books on A's they are full of ways to stop the thoughts. If my mind gets away from me & I'm out in public I pick someone and try to figure out what they do. For me its all about distraction until I can come to terms with it. good luck and go read some self help books they help.
Thanks for the reply. We have a pretty good church, so when the thoughts come up, I repeat the Lord's Prayer over and over and concentrate on sitting in the choir in church (both W and I sing in the choir together). Books that have been recommended by our therapist and pastors are Glass "Not 'Just Friends'" and Singer "After the Affair". Our therapist recommended my W and I read it alternately and then discuss. It is funny how I am still interacting on one level almost normally with someone who lied to me and engaged in physical sex with someone else and tried to hide it. We are going forward and I have to take her promise on faith that she wants to save our marriage and is truly sorry. I am assuming from what I am reading and what I am hearing from our therapist that the healing is going to take quite a bit of time and that flashbacks and obsessions will be with me for quite a while. Our pastor says take it a day at a time and when that doesn't work, an hour at a time. Peace.
"The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places." - Ernest Hemingway, A Farewell to Arms, 1929.
Well, I did my first post on 4/12/05 and got exactly one reply (did get 62 viewings). This isn't working out for me because can't have a conversation if no one is answering. I am also posting at www.survivinginfidelity.com which has a much better response rate. So-o-o-o, adios, y'all from Atlanta, and good luck with all your recoveries.
"The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places." - Ernest Hemingway, A Farewell to Arms, 1929.
I did my first post on 4/12/05 and got exactly one reply (did get 62 viewings). This isn't working out for me because can't have a conversation if no one is answering. I am also posting at www.survivinginfidelity.com which has a much better response rate. So-o-o-o, adios, y'all from Atlanta, and good luck with all your recoveries.
FWIW, there may be more responses on SI, but they're mostly not helpful. They're mostly encouraging anger, negativity and resentment. Read their members' posts, and you'll see many of them are months and years from their DDys, and are still venting and spewing negative venom. Many of them are stuck in anger, cynicism and resentment, and refuse to do things that will have them moving forward in a positive way. And that's the kind of advice that will keep you stuck along with them for some time to come, fair warning. I gave up on that site a long time ago.
As a matter of fact, I had met someone from there, and she posted about me. What she posted had several relevant omissions, on top of which she misquoted me, and actually painted a far different picture from the reality by doing so. Perhaps she was trying to justify her position. Of course, all her responses fed from that, and spewed further, though there were a couple of responses from people who saw through the cracks and questioned her position. People mostly were commenting negatively about someone who they did not know, and of whom they were given an incorrect view of, spinning their own layers of negative assumptions and presumptions onto it. So, since that aligns itself with my sense that many members there are negative, it doesn't surprise me that they so often paint everything as bad. So if you're seeking a cheerleading squad designed to make one feel better by way of playing into the blame game, SI's just the site for that.
I even once had a rather intelligent suggestion for the site, and emailed it to the site's administrator. Her response? She sent me an email taking offense that I even suggested something. It was as if she felt that by my suggesting something, I was inferring the site of hers wasn't good enough. I couldn't believe it. But then, reading her posts, she's a very negative person.
If I had taken the majority of their advice when I used to post there, today I'd probably be as pissed off at my WAW as anybody could be and would've stopped all contact with her, as per their well known "No Contact" philosophy with the WAS. Instead, I have lunch dates with her, building a friendship, so there's still somewhat of a possibility for us in the future, which is the aim of why we come to these sites in the first place.
Even their terminology: "BS" for "Betrayed Spouse" and "WS" for "Wandering Spouse" draws a line in the sand and paints a bitter representation of the partners in the relationship inherent in it's usage. Compare that to this site's non-judgmental acronyms "WAS" for "Walk Away Spouse" and "LBS" for the "Left Behind Spouse".
Nothing was stopping you from posting more here yourself about you and your sitch, though. Blaming others for not responding as you would've liked them to is your prerogative, but in my view, not productive. Best of luck to you, though.
Thanks much for the reply. Everyone's experience is different, I guess. Here is a quote from one of the responses I got from SI:
"The physiological shock of all this pain kind of reverberates and throbs over time before it lessens. The intensity and frequency subside slowly--AND IT IS INDEPENDENT OF ALL YOUR POSITIVE THINKING, SPIRITUAL INSIGHTS, AND BEST INTENTIONS. "
I take from that that this is a hurtful, hateful, devastating experience. I am beginning to see that the memories and obsessions will not go away any time soon. I don't see in the above any hate, anger, negativity; maybe a little brutal honesty, which I am beginning to appreciate. The gist of the advice I have been getting is that my "WS" made a choice on her own to betray me, and I still must work out in my mind (and heart) if I can trust again. And that this will be a long, gradual, frustrating process.
We are in MC and my "WS" seems committed to the process. She has also said that she is sorry for the hurt and pain she caused me, and that she does not want any contact with the "OM", althought she still has feelings for him and thinks of him occasionally.
But some feedback is better than no feedback at all.
"The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places." - Ernest Hemingway, A Farewell to Arms, 1929.
"The physiological shock of all this pain kind of reverberates and throbs over time before it lessens. The intensity and frequency subside slowly--AND IT IS INDEPENDENT OF ALL YOUR POSITIVE THINKING, SPIRITUAL INSIGHTS, AND BEST INTENTIONS. "
I don't see in the above any hate, anger, negativity; maybe a little brutal honesty, which I am beginning to appreciate.
Now, please... I did not write that EVERY post and EVERY member on SI is negative. I wrote that my sense was that many are.
Insofar as that post you quote, I tend to disagree. I know for a fact that the emotional consequences of infidelity can lessen in frequency and intensity very much helped along with one's positive thinking and insights. Again, whoever posted that on SI is perhaps not able to do whatever they need to to accomplish that, and so believes it can't be done.
The gist of the advice I have been getting is that my "WS" made a choice on her own to betray me, and I still must work out in my mind (and heart) if I can trust again. And that this will be a long, gradual, frustrating process.
Betrayal is traumatic, no doubt about it. It does shatter trust. It shatters blind trust, and you'll probably never hand over blind trust to someone else again. But, you know, that's a good thing to learn. there is another type of trust you could build, more of a trusting of yourself, where you would function highly again in a relationship, whether it's with her or someone else, but keep in mind, all relationships have risk.
Your WAS's choice was not really to betray you. Most likely, the depth of the impact upon you of her choices was not her primary consideration. Such type of thinking leads one to see oneself as a victim. Her choice was really to escape and take care of herself, to such a degree, that even after considering that it might end your relationship with her, she opted for it. It was for herself and done for herself. You know it's a very selfish act.
We are in MC and my "WS" seems committed to the process. She has also said that she is sorry for the hurt and pain she caused me, and that she does not want any contact with the "OM", although she still has feelings for him and thinks of him occasionally.
That sounds normal for a WAS. But hey! You ought to be posting HERE and telling us HOW it came about that you two are in R! Sounds more like you have something to tell us than we you. Maybe we all ought to leave because you haven't posted?
But some feedback is better than no feedback at all
Don't know about that... but I'm glad to pitch in.
Your WAS's choice was not really to betray you. Most likely, the depth of the impact upon you of her choices was not her primary consideration. Such type of thinking leads one to see oneself as a victim. Her choice was really to escape and take care of herself, You know it's a very selfish act.
I still don't know if she was aware of how much she was betraying. We went over this last night; I said I didn't want to blame. I just needed to understand and couldn't see why she would make the choice to lie to me and betray me for 12 years -- all of our married life and two years before that. She said again she was sorry; she shouldn't have done this. I said I didn't want to hear should; I wasn't blaming, just couldn't understand. She said she liked the attention. She said sometimes she thought I wasn't listening to her. I said I was aware of that, but didn't think it was that important, not important enough to destroy our relationship. When she said I wasn't listening, it was mostly the reading the newspaper, "You aren't listening to me.", type of response. But I believe very sincerely that if she had something important to say I wanted to hear it and asked her many times if something was bothering her and how could I help.
OK, you want more disclosure, I'll give you more disclosure. I was up in the Smokey Mountains several weeks ago, just two weeks after "DDay". I was hiking up a mountain trail for a few miles, kinda steep. When I got to the top of the ridge, I felt such a feeling of joy that I began singing an anthem which our church choir presented to the congregation the week before, John Rutter's arrangement of "For the Beauty of the Earth":
"For the beauty of the Earth, For the beauty of the Skies, For the love, which from our Birth, Over and around us lies, Over and around us lies. . ."
I walked along the ridge, could see the spring flowers in blossom, looked on one side straight down into a lovely valley surrounded by mountains on all sides (Cades Cove), looked in the other direction and could see the cities of Townsend, Pigeon Forge, Knoxville, and way off in the distance the hazy blue Cumberland. I remember such a feeling of peace.
Now, more disclosure, this affair went on for 12 years, began after we had been living together for 3 years, basically as man and wife. The "WS" had had a 2 1/2 years affair with the "OM" previously as escape from a horrible marriage. The "OM" "W" had found out about it and that was that. Then the "OM" reconnects by phone to my "WS". At this point, if we had had an open, trusting relationship, she would have told me about the phone call. Instead, she kept it to herself, which tells me that she was expecting that the affair would begin again. This was not the "Slippery Slope" that Shirley Glass talks about in "Not 'Just Friends'", because she had a history with this man. They both knew what would happen if they kept up the connection, and it did. The affair developed into twice monthly phone calls for phone sex (mutual masturbation) and several trips out of town which she lied about to me for live sex in her hotel room. I found about the affair from a letter from the "OM" "W", who had suspected and confronted the "OM". The fact that I found out from a letter from the "OM" "W" brings up more sorts of trust issues. In any case, the letter the "OM" wrote to the wife is full of what seems to me bragging about his prowess "I thought I had the best of both worlds. A fantasy sex goddess of my own and a stable relationship at home. I had my own pornographic gig, at not cost" (I assume he means no credit card charges for phone sex). My "WS" finally pushed herself to read the letter from the "OM" and was very depressed. She said it made her feel like "a piece of trash". While I am sorry for all the pain and hurt this has caused the both of us, I couldn't and can't feel sympathy for this particular feeling of hers.
Even so, I reiterate we are in MC, my "WS" seems to feel remorse, has cut off all connection with the "OM", seems committed to rebuilding our marriage. She gets impatient and angry when I want to hear that from her again and again. I feel like a little boy who wants reassurance from his parents, but I read somewhere that feeling is normal (meaning many people feel it) in this situation.
So-o-o-, NYorker, if you were able to get to the end of this disclosure, let me know what you think. Thanks much for all your feedback, so far.
"The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places." - Ernest Hemingway, A Farewell to Arms, 1929.
" I know God promises not to give me more than I can handle. I just wish He didn't trust me so much." - Mother Teresa
"The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places." - Ernest Hemingway, A Farewell to Arms, 1929.
I still don't know if she was aware of how much she was betraying
What I'm saying is that the WAS doesn't think, "OK, today I'll betray my spouse". Their mind set becomes more like, "I hurt. The OM makes me feel good about myself. What's so wrong about that? I need that, and I'm not getting that from my spouse. I've tried. Am I supposed to suffer like this forever with no end? I can't live like that, I've decided." The impact of their decision on the LBS is not a consideration when they get to that mind set. It gets fogged and blurred, otherwise, their inner conflict would be greater, and they don't want to go there.
I just needed to understand and couldn't see why she would make the choice to lie to me and betray me for 12 years -- all of our married life and two years before that... I wasn't blaming, just couldn't understand.
The thing is that it can be understood on an academic level, but since there are emotions involved, it isn't logical and doesn't need to make sense.
She said she liked the attention. She said sometimes she thought I wasn't listening to her. I said I was aware of that, but didn't think it was that important, not important enough to destroy our relationship. When she said I wasn't listening, it was mostly the reading the newspaper, "You aren't listening to me.", type of response. But I believe very sincerely that if she had something important to say I wanted to hear it and asked her many times if something was bothering her and how could I help.
OK, now you know that what you considered to be "listening" was too passive for her, she needs more of an "active" form of listening, as do many women, that is nothing unusual. It means putting the paper down and not even glancing sideways while she's speaking. It means making sure you understand what she's saying, even asking for her to make clear parts you don't understand. It means validating what she's thinking and feeling and not offering solutions but simply a listening, attentive ear. It means gleaning why she's saying what she's saying and how she's saying what she's saying. It means spending time every week throughout the week with time spent listening to her. The book, "the Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman does an excellent job in providing detail on how to actively listen.
May I suggest that you change the "tone" of your questions to her a bit? Instead of seeking information (and I will touch upon seeking information below), you can and should use those opportunities where you two speak about what contributed to your relationship's problems as a little gold mine with nuggets of information that tell you what needs fixing between the two of you, and points you to where your own changes can start from.
Insofar as your "need to know", that's very valid but not understandable from the WAS's viewpoint. If you've read Dr. Glass's articles, you may recall that for you, there's a wall of secrecy of details of this affair couple, and so it makes you feel as if you're living with a stranger somewhat. That wall of secrecy needs to come down for you to feel that relationship and secret life dissolve. A wall of secrecy needs to be between you and her, not her and someone else.
She gets impatient and angry when I want to hear that from her again and again. I feel like a little boy who wants reassurance from his parents, but I read somewhere that feeling is normal (meaning many people feel it) in this situation.
To the WAS with remorse and guilt, every time they're prodded by more questions, and questions will arise in your mind from time to time, answering those questions bring up feelings of guilt and its associated pain for her again, so she's not keen on that. Additionally, she knows some of the answers will cause you pain. You have to make sure that you can handle knowing these answers, because they might hit you like a bat in your gut, and haunt your vision for some time to come.
In order to make this "investigation" (for lack of a better term, I think Dr. Glass uses this term as well to describe a phase of the "questioning" experience) agreeable to the needs of both the WAS and the LBS (can we agree to use those terms as we're on this site?), many couples set a specific day of the week and time in which any questions may be asked. They also set, very importantly, a duration of, let's say a half and hour to an hour, in which that session lasts. In that way, the LBS knows that questions will be answered, and the WAS knows that the questioning won't go on indefinitely nor will the WAS be subjected to impromptu questioning at all sorts of moments throughout the week.
It is important for you not to react to the answers but to accept them as they come, calmly. If you react emotionally, or with anger or bitterness, she will not be forthcoming with more answers. For that reason, many couple opt to engage in these types of sessions in a marriage counselor's office, where the MC can impartially listen and keep the tone productive, can offer suggestions, techniques, and help overcome impasses when they are reached, keeping everyone on target.
I'd also recommend the book, "After the Affair" by Janis Spring. It spells out the WAS's mindset and the LBS's mindset so that both may read and understand the other. She also has some exercises to help with reconciliation. Another fine book by her is about rebuilding trust, you may wish to give that a read too.
At this point, if we had had an open, trusting relationship, she would have told me about the phone call. Instead, she kept it to herself, which tells me that she was expecting that the affair would begin again. This was not the "Slippery Slope" that Shirley Glass talks about in "Not 'Just Friends'", because she had a history with this man. They both knew what would happen if they kept up the connection, and it did.
I agree. She went after it because she was unhappy and things weren't working the way she wanted between you two. How she handled that ultimately by going outside the primary relationship was a mistake she now regrets making. Lesson learned, hopefully. Going forward, there can never be contact with that man again, and in fact, any friendship with the opposite sex needs to be in a more controlled environment, as per Dr. Glass and others.
This is a good place to be, I have to agree with NY. I made a visit or two to the SI website and saw a lot of what can you do to catch them cheating. Not great for your PMA.
If you move over to the newcomers forum there is much more traffic and much more chance for a response. Also, if you post on other threads they will repay the favor. Keep in mind though that even if you don't get tons of replies it it a great place to get your thoughts out.
hang around for a while, you might like it! Unsure
Well,
NYSurvivor,