Cemar, This is the big question in my household right now.
It seems that we have different definitions of desire. To me, desire is a word and has a specific definition. You can't really change the definition of a WORD just because you experience something different than your partner. In that case, YOU need to come up with a different word. That is sortof how my thinking goes.
I wouldn't even be having this convo with him, except that he continually asserts that his desire is "just like mine". It really isn't. So I feel the need to keep hammering away at him (smack me, I deserve it) in order to demonstrate that No they are not.
My desire is: a strong longing for him. Covet or crave would be other words for my feelings. Another way to put it would be: The feeling that accomanies an unsatisfied state.
His desire is: a wish for me. I can't think of any synonyms because I'm trying to convey a feeling of wanting something but not necessarily needing it. A flicker of want that is fairly strong but still all the same has a "take it or leave it" quality to it. That is NOT what I feel. He rarely gets to the "unsatisfied" state so I don't know that he can truly relate (as he swears he does) to how I feel.
Ok, now that I've stalled on your question long enough, lol.
Our natural desirous ways would be as follows: Me: I wish he would desire me every day. I'm not saying that has to lead to sex, but I do wish the desire was there every day. I think it lends an element of fun and sweetness to a marriage that you can't get anywhere else. Him: He desires me, I mean truly "gotta have her", probably once per week, maybe once every 10 days.
Because I stay in good shape and try to dress nice-but-sexy and drape myself on him and sleep naked and flirt with him and give lots of x's and o's and touch him often, he ends up feeling desire more than he naturally would. This is a compliment to me, I realize that.
I do fervently wish, that the standards were not so high with him. It seems that I have to have a KILLER body and do TONS of touching and sleep naked every single night (even in winter, brr!) or the desire fades and dies out. I don't mind keeping in shape but yesterday I was feeling sorry for myself that me at a size 8 doesn't seem to get the same results as being a size smaller. I don't mind, I like being that size too but it all goes back to that "I deserve to be desired, no matter what my size is..." thinking that I was talking about yesterday.
HP, smack me if you want to but I can't help but think your H's position on desire is linked to the Catholic stuff about sex being basically a yucky concession to our baser animal desires. And whatever fluff the Church may put out about the sanctity of marriage, etc., that is the bottom line: it is better to be celebate than married, and the BEST thing is to be a virgin (like the BVM who managed to have a baby without ever doing it). "It is better to marry than to burn. (St. Paul)"
If he lets you be the one to produce all the heat, he doesn't have to feel his own lust, which in his mind, is probably a sin, even when it's for his own wife. Rats. Kind of like a woman who lets her husband "force" her because she likes sex, but Liking Sex is not a quality she can reconcile with her "Fully Dressed in the Kitchen Making Breakfast for the Kids" persona. I think you are a beautiful example of owning and showing all the facets of womanhood. But because of his religious beliefs (IMHO) your guy can't let himself be all the facets of manhood. This theory would fit with his tendency to make advances in the middle of the night where there doesn't seem to be as much open responsibility for wanting you and going after you. Just my $.02.
MrsNOP, This is interesting! See, I just assumed that all women assumed that their man would want them. Like it is a given or something and not related to anything they have to DO.
My thinking goes something like this:
Men want women. I am a woman. I am married to a man. Therefore, my man will want me.
I have a hard time shaking this idea.
The fact that it is true in so many other (most?) households compounds my inability to accept that it is not true in my home. Actually it's not an INability (that would imply that it cannot be overcome), more like a disability.
Lillie, I think that he used to feel this way. I'm sure there are traces of it lurking about his head.
I do think, though, that he is largely past these issues. My H is VERY open about what he feels and gives me brutally honest answers. If there were any worries or doubts or hidden beliefs, I do think he would have told me about it.
You know what I think? I think it is a habit. He has gotten into the HABIT of me-going-to-him. He is in the habit of keeping his desire well hidden.
He told me this past weekend, during the Sweets Discussion, that there are lots of times he feels strong desire for me--yes, Honeypot, desire that matches the need for candy--but does nothing with it. I asked why and he said that he feels worse and more anxiety at the thought of DOING something than he does at the thought of just leaving me hanging. This sounds mean but it wasn't intended in that spirit at all. I took it as he intended it to be--that he was telling me that his anxiety rockets when faced with the prospect of demonstrating the desire that he does (sometimes) feel. So he chooses the easy route..does nothing, and hopes that I 'know' that the desire is there.
Really, Lil, I don't think the religious stuff bothers him anymore. I do think you are right in that the idea of being HORNY and HUNGRY and I GOTTA HAVE HER makes him feel icky inside. He would never blame this on God, though, or try to find theological reasons why this is an acceptable way to feel. He would likely chalk it up to old habits and his earliest learnings about sex, which most definitely would have been negative.
Well, right after I posted that stuff, I thought, "even if it's true, how does it help?"
What you said here
Quote: he was telling me that his anxiety rockets when faced with the prospect of demonstrating the desire that he does (sometimes) feel. So he chooses the easy route..does nothing, and hopes that I 'know' that the desire is there.
I think is EXACTLY how my bf feels. But add into his sitch that he cannot always get enough erection for penetration. So I've gotten where I don't want to Go There because both of us just wind up feeling worse. We don't have the taboo obviously about oral to completion, but I think he believes that his lack of E makes him repulsive to me. Actually it's not the lack of E that bothers me so much (although it does bother me-- yes, he has viagra, and no, he won't take it- no good reason, loses pills, makes excuses, etc), but his believe that the E is the be-all and end-all that really ticks me off.
Did you ever get Kosher Sex. Even if you don't share it with h (after all views are Jewish not Catholic), I think you would like it. It presents very passionate sex in a deeply religious context. The difference is that orthodix Jews believe that sex is VERY important. I took a class on Kabbalah (Jewish mysticism) recently, and it's a Kabbalistic belief that a man is not a whole person without a woman-- and that includes sexual union with a woman (his wife, of course). That in the sexual union is the closest place on earth that we can truly experience God. How 'bout that? And the Sabbath (Shabbat in Hebrew) is the holiest day of the week and is further sanctified by ML on Shabbat.
Lillie, I reserved that book and then forgot to go pick it up. Ah the joys of being forgetful!
I will look into again as well as the UL book..you've got me curious on that one, too.
H wouldn't have a problem with the Jewish part so much as the sex part, LOL. I think he will scream if he sees another sex book on the nightstand.. Also, he would wholeheartedly agree with the part about a man not being whole and that ML to your wife is the closest you can get to God. He has probably spouted off something similar to that, before. See, my husband is really good at talking but much less talented at the DOING.
Lillie, have you ever asked him to do something just for you..that does not involve or require an erection? What was his response to that?
I am trying to get better at asking for what I want and need. Not waiting until after the moment is gone and then bringing it up in a "you shoulda..." way, but pouncing on the opportunity right then and there for him to do something to please me and to let him inside my head and see what it is that I need.
I don't think you are wrong to expect him to desire you.
I DO think you it's wrong for a spouse to "expect" desire. But I also think it's imperative that they humbly explain why they don't and participate in trying to make the best of the situation.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
In spite of our different situations, I think you and I are somewhat alike in our responses. A way in which I think you and I are similar is that I get my hopes up, then see them smashed, and it hurts so much. The diff is that you keep hoping, whereas I have stomped on some of my hope.
The other night, it had been so long since we were even remotely sexual (in spite of sleeping together naked every night), that I turned to him and initiated some serious kissing. He responded and we had fun with it for a few minutes. Then it was over. He didn't reach for anything, and frankly I didn't either. I didn't sense any interest from him on proceeding. I rolled over and we went to sleep. I can't find my desire. Lately I've been despondent... nothing seems to help. Even the UL stuff just reminds me that I've been feeling this way for years.
BF just got back from a physical this morning. Doc gave him two packs of Viagra samples-- I think it's 10 pills all together. He seemed really excited about it. We'll see. Been here, done this. If I get excited about his excitement, I'm just setting myself up for a crash. As a 7, bf gets caught up in planning. Sometimes he feels that if he's planned something, it's the same as doing it. Having those Viagra pills probably makes him feel that he's being very sexual and has fulfilled that obligation.
I know I'm dragging my feet and not doing my work... Like I said before, I can dish out the advice, but I can't take my own advice. I'm in a cranky mood and I think I'll go out in the yard now and eat worms...
Does your husband have a pulse? I read this stuff and can't get up from my desk ig you know what I mean. I would literally KILL for this stuff. You've had several children, you stay in great shape, ou love sex, and you are flirtatious. If you could bottle this up and sell it, you would be the richest person alive. You are every HD man's dream. You are all these things even though your husband does NOT meet your needs. Kind of shows that desire is more of a physical thing then it is relational.
A normal man actully needs sexual relief about every 3 days at most. Does your husband masturbate. Is he reliving his physical desire away from you? I can not see going 10 days without doing it. I would freaking hurt! If he is doing it without you, there are ways of fixing that.
CeMar, You are easy. I had to go back and read what I wrote cause I didn't remember it being all that salacious. It wasn't, you're just easy! LOL
He does not mbate. I have wondered about the aching balls but it doesn't seem to bother him. I think that we have not, as a married couple, had a long enough period of abstinence for me to see him really hurting. Perhaps 2 months? Not sure...
His testosterone is high, also, so I know it is not that his body is not working right. It works fine. He still has little need to either mbate or seek his wife out unless it's been a week or more.
but I can't help but think your H's position on desire is linked to the Catholic stuff about sex being basically a yucky concession to our baser animal desires. And whatever fluff the Church may put out about the sanctity of marriage, etc., that is the bottom line: it is better to be celebate than married, and the BEST thing is to be a virgin (like the BVM who managed to have a baby without ever doing it). "It is better to marry than to burn. (St. Paul)"
So I've gotten where I don't want to Go There because both of us just wind up feeling worse. We don't have the taboo obviously about oral to completion, but I think he believes that his lack of E makes him repulsive to me. Actually it's not the lack of E that bothers me so much (although it does bother me-- yes, he has viagra, and no, he won't take it- no good reason, loses pills, makes excuses, etc), but his believe that the E is the be-all and end-all that really ticks me off.