The Neverending Crap Sandwich

[honeypot]

Oops, sorry, Lil I forgot you asked that.

I don't think these teachings apply to a man who is completely impotent. First of all, the church says nothing about the man giving the woman a handjob--it's perfectly acceptable, although not necessarily within the "spirit of the law". So that'd be okay.

As far as the fella, I'm sure exceptions would be made in that case. Our church is like any other, in that it realizes that the purpose of sex is both to create babies AND to help the people get closer to each other. To expect a couple to be celibate forever because of a physical disability is not in keeping with any of the teachings that I've ever read, and I've read a LOT of Catholic sexual teachings, for obvious reasons.
Gotta stay on top of MrHP, you know.

Now if he'd only let me stay on top of him for real I'd be set........

[Lillieperl]

Well, your H isn't exactly unresponsive to you. He's just not as responsive as you want him to be in the way you want him to be when you want him to be. If he were COMPLETELY unresponsive, that would be a different conversation.

As for why you might want to feel better, or move off dead center, or shift your feelings on this subject, I have two answers:

1. Because his behavior is a recurring source of annoyance, which is a signal that there's a root to be explored and exploring it could lead to growth (a desirable outcome), and

2. To see what's on the other side.

Besides, I didn't say that exploring your feelings WOULD lead to you no longer being annoyed by his level of responsiveness, I said it MIGHT, and that the prospect that it MIGHT could possibly be reason enough not to do it.

Actually, I have no idea where it might lead, but I believe it will lead to a Good Place, because that kind of exploration has ALWAYS led to a Good Place for me. (See #2 above.)

[sat567]

I'm having trouble with this, too, HP. Why would I want to get to a point where I'm fine with the thought of never making love to anyone ever again for the rest of my life?

Hairdog

[Lillieperl]

Now, hairdog, c'mon. You're a smart guy. Where did I EVER say that being okay with the thought of never ML was a hoped for outcome of anything???? I never said that in a million zillion years. I said that a person might be afraid that exploring their feelings MIGHT lead to acceptance of things that at the moment seem unacceptable and that would make them NOT want to explore their feelings.

Unless you're responding to the posts about Church teaching-- in that case, I withdraw my comment.

[honeypot]

I think that me gaining some acceptance would be a fabulous thing. I am actually not afraid to explore and find out that I'm okay with his limited form of desire. What I am NOT okay with is him saying that, yes, he wants to be more sexual and then not doing it because I have not kept him on his toes with my anger. I desperately want to extricate myself from this dynamic of ours. The easy answer is to say, Stop getting mad Honey.

But, see, for that I need lotsa sex to take the edge off the Honeyvolcano.

LOLOLOL

[honeypot]

Weird things going on here.
I just emailed H a pretty sassy email, and he responded wonderfully!

NOPkins, if I have to tell you you're right one more time, I will scream! I should have communicated to him my desire and specifically what that meant. Communicate communicate communicate. Why can't I learn that.

He told me last night, as I was venting that my Naked Snuggling never led to anything, that he had no idea I was TRYING to get it to lead to something. I said, H if I have to tell ya every time "this is snuggling" or "this is seduction", it will sortof lessen the experience for me...

but the point he was making hit home, nonetheless. We do not communicate well with each other. In fact, his whole family seems to have problems with communication (and this is not a slam, merely an observation). It is comical to watch them trying to talk to each other, and everyone is busy misunderstanding and a 4 minute story turns into a 20 minute ordeal because none of them can follow what the other is saying.
Anyway, I think I should have communicated my thoughts to him long ago instead of ASSuming that he thought one thing and I know him inside and out. I could be wrong and misunderstanding him AGAIN, but I need to get the ball rolling with communication.
NOP, I did try to ask the colorful balls question yesterday but he said it was not the issue, as he wasn't thinking sex--or intentionally trying to avoid it--if I don't tell him upfront what my "snuggling" intentions are. How bizarre, I think. He really does have drive problems, I'm telling you this is not all relational.
At any rate, though, it was a worthwhile question. I also asked him where his 'hunger' for me was at: 1 being "I don't think about sex, hardly ever" and 10 being "I can't stop thinking about it and do so at least once an hour".
He replied that he was at a 9 and 3/4 but he was being silly so I have no idea of where he is really at. I pressed for a real answer and all he'd say is that he thinks about it a lot and wants me to be healthy.

I wish I didn't have to drag this info out of him like a dentist extracting a rotten molar. It was nice to hear, even if I had to force it. How patethic am I!

Anyway, I feel positive about the vibe that is currently going on and I am ready to communicate in a loving way. I did a pretty good job of checking my anger at the door yesterday but every once in a while it zinged right outta me.

Wish me luck.
HP

[Julie33]

Lillie,

There’s some powerful stuff in your post. I’ve done a lot of this work already, after reading and slowly digesting PM. Maybe UL is the next book for me, but I am not ready for another book just yet! I need to coast for a while

Here's the thing: it's not your H's behavior that hurts, it's your feelings that hurt. IOW it's your response to his behavior that causes you pain.

This is very true. Somewhere along the line, I realized that unless his behavior was rooted in an intent to hurt, then the hurt I feel is mine and of my own doing. The solution to this was to stop taking his behavior personally, and stop being reactive to him. It is easier said than done, but I really have come a long, long way in implementing this. However, there is a caveat. This has to be balanced with a genuine attempt on his part to change his behaviors in accordance with my desires. The two go hand in hand. The tricky part is recognizing when one’s partner is making that genuine attempt, and not invalidating that by wallowing in one’s own pain.

Or an analogy closer to home: let's say that part of who you consider yourself to be is a woman whose house is always spotlessly clean. Your H is in the habit of throwing his dirty laundry on the bedroom floor. (I said this was fantasy. ) It makes you furious to see his stuff on the floor and you tell him over and over again that it's important to you for him to put his clothes in the hamper. Let's say you go through a process of some kind, and the possibility of you getting okay with his laundry on the floor presents itself as an option. I would guess that your first reaction might very well be: "But I'd have to get used to lower standards of housekeeping. If I do that... then what? I can no longer claim a spotlessly clean house as one of the things that identifies me as me."

I was laughing while reading this because I have lived this. One of the things that made me a ‘not-so-nice-person’ is that I gravitate towards organization and cleanliness, and used to nag everyone around me into submission. My H is a slob (said in the most loving tone!). He wouldn’t notice laundry on the floor if it flew up and hit him in the face. He needed for me to be a more pleasant person, so I needed to increase my tolerance for chaos. I am actually enjoying leaving dishes in the sink and clothes on the floor, while I wear a smile on my face, lol! Who knew?

Julie

[OG_Lou]

Re HP:

Regular for us is 2-4 times per week, so while the urge still hits, it's managable.

Well HP, now I am envious. That is a month or two supply of mercy sex for me at our present rate. Lots of other guys would feel lucky if they were in a "REGULAR for us situation."

Maybe I need to go to that desert island sooner.

Get well quick. Happy for you and H when things get back to normal.

OG lou

[cinemanymph]

Comic relief provided by HD. ROFLMAO.

[desdamona]

Okay, fellow Catholics, where was I when the ejaculation outside of the vagina information was handed out? I really never heard of this before Honeypot. I was confirmed just 10 years ago and don't remember this ever being brought up. I am aware that there are various interpretations of the spilling of seed scripture in the old testament.
I just have a hard time imagining the Church talking about this in exlicit detail. But I guess, the saying may be true...those that can do...and those that can't make rules about it? lol
Is there actual official Church doctrine on this? Just curious.

des