kim, I don't know about all sitches, but in my sitch w/ a classic WAW if I initiate any R talk that is viewed as pursuing. My W has so much pain and resentment still that anything I initiate will just remind her of those feelings and will not let her see the changes I have made and am trying to make. If I allow her w/ no pressure from me to see what I am doing and know that it is genuine and not just to "win her back" hopefully she will be drawn back. I hope what I perceive truly is doubt because I have given her space and support and she can see how I have "come out of my shell" as she puts it.
If W initiates I usually try not to avoid the discussion. I try to listen more than talk, validate her feelings and really try to hear what she is saying. There really is nothing that I can say to bring her back. She knows how I feel. I have been told many times on this board that the WAW knows how the LBS feels. If you do say it, say it once and don't say it again. I have let my W know in moments of weakness how I feel and I won't be saying it again. She needs to see that I am getting on w/ my life and will not be pining away waiting her return.
I am the man who is loving my kids and will keep them from continuing this cycle of destruction.
Wow alot of great advice. But here is my trap. And going back on it now I realize that many times in my marriage I wasn't being judged by what my actions were. I was being judged by what her first Husbands actions were. Now I never really wanted to hear the full details from it. I just know he had an affair. I leave things at that, because I believe the marriage between my wife and I is just the two of us. But regularly in the "talking traps" her XH comes up. And she use's it as an honesty benchmark.
And no matter what it is a losing arguement for all. Now frankly my wife is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. And I thank God regularly for her XH for doing what he did. But now I don't think that way. It takes two to ruin a marriage. Not one.
But I'm only going to worry about changing myself. Sure to help save my marriage. But to be honest. More to save my own life. Hopefully some of this will rub off on my wife.
And I know I have to avoid those baited talking points that do nothing but bring out "it's all your fault anger".
I can't answer the question of how not to get baited. I'm better at how to get baited.
Actually my WAW would often ask "how are you doing?" and I thought she was just being polite. I would say "good. How bout you?" or something like that and move on. She later told me when we did get down to a real R talk that what she was asking was "how am I doing with this separation, etc." That's my only times of not being baited.
What has generally got to me was when she pushed the D a little harder. She would use the "you've moved on and so have I so let's get this over with" type argument. It's pretty hard not to at least say "I haven't moved on. I still want an US". Pushing the D button has pretty much worked every time. My problem is how to avoid getting into a R talk...saying I still want the marriage, etc...when she starts the conversation with let's get the ball rolling along on this D. Or should I even avoid the R talk? I sometimes feel that she uses it specifically to see if I still want us together...kind of like reassurance that I'm still available. Any thoughts?
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
What are some of your "back up" plans when things start heading toward an OR talk? How do you "gracefully" transition to a different topic? Especially without making your partner feel like you've cut them off?
"Nice weather we're having lately, isn't it?"
"How 'bout them Seahawks?"
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
Alright you two....now it's time for a *VERY* serious question - what if having OR talks is a 180 for me?
For much of my M, I resisted R talks - or at least made them difficult by defending myself and being "logical" against her emotions and feelings.
So - for *me* - the willingness to have an R talk IS a 180 I wish to emphasize - not only for the knowledge I gain about her inner emotional turmoil and what she's "thinking" - but also for mysef as this is a "change" I'm making for myself.
Does that make sense? IOW, for me, having R talks - IS a change I'm making for myself.
A further benefit for me in having R talks when she brings them up, is that it allows me to demonstrate to her and to myself that the old reasoning self is dead and replaced by the new/old "understanding" person (James - do note that I've changed "Always Agree" "Always Understand!). So, by having R talks, I can "act" a change that I've made for me that she *likes*.
So.....thoughts? Is it still in my best interest to avoid R talks when she brings them up - or, in my case, since they represent "change" on several fronts/active and liked 180s - ought I embrace the chances to have these talks?
FWIW, I have not instigated any R talks for several months now - merely waiting until she brings them up and cheerfully and readily going with and proving to *myself* that I can listen and be understanding....
Thoughts from you two are very much appreciated - along with everyone else.
