Boy I dont think I could ever be friends with somebody my S was seeing like that. It would just seem to wierd plus who needs the extra emotional baggage that comes with it?
Glad things seem to moving in a positive direction for you Jo. I hope they stay that way! take care! JIM
Hi James - thank you for your comments, you are right, I hate the idea of having to keep in touch with her.
Well, my update is not so good again and it is mainly me. I am having second thoughts as to what I want. I am so upset I feel like leaving him and he hasn't even really done anything wrong.
I just can't bear this pain and I'm sitting here in tears. Sometimes I think I'd be better off being single and childless.
My children and H came round and DD1 was dressed up to the nines in new clothes I'd not seen before. She boldly prnounced that Nanna (my mother) gave them to her, which got me wound up before we'd even started.
H came in and complimented me on my dress and then complimented me on the living room which I had changed round and built new shelving units etc so he asked me about those.
He asked for a coffee. He looked shattered. I made him the coffee and the girls asked to draw so I got the art set out for them.
H then told me that my sister is having a baby girl in 2 weeks time. I burst into tears and told him not to mention her or my mother
DD1 started trying to talk about it and I just told her to shutup. I was sitting there with tears streaming down my face. I said to H, why did you tell me that, I don't want to know.
(I wasn't going to tell anybody on here but the reason we split up the second time after the 7 months was because I lost a baby at 12 weeks pregnant - I have been grieving for this child ever since and still cannot bring myself to hold really tiny babies. The trauma at the time was so bad that in our sitch we couldn't handle it and he left with the pronuncement I had killed his baby).
Anyway, he said 'Okay, I won't mention it again' but then made this remark that we have had ours so it's my sisters turn now.
I thought this was really insensitive considering what I've been through and I just sat there in tears, thinking I can't be with this man. I can't do it, too much has happened to me.
Then DD1 says 'Mummy, why don't you ever come to our house?'
I said
'OMG, I'm not going there, no way, not ever.' (Ex-OW and bf are there, plus it was where my baby was created that I lost).
H huffed like he was upset or offended that I wouldn't go there so I attempted to soften the blow by saying 'EX-OW'S DS 14 yrs is sleeping on the sofa so there's no room to sit.'
H said he's not sleeping now, is he? It's day time.
I said well, you never know with a 14 year old lad, and tried to make a joke out of it. Then I wiped the tears out of my eyes and decided to make an effort to quit crying about my sister's DD and my stupid mother.
He held my hand and rubbed his fingers round the palm of my hand which I found comforting.
DD1 asked if I would go to DD3's ballet class so I said it's up to your father. He said I could if I contributed to the petrol as it costs him £10 return every time he comes to my house. I only had £5 in my bag so he said why don't you come on Monday in 2 weeks time as they have a parent's afternoon then where you can watch her dancing. So I said okay.
Then they left to go to the class and I am sat here in tears again. It wasn't him, it's me, I am not over it and right now my sex drive has plummeted through the floor.
I cannot imagine I will be able to get in the mood now as hearing about my sisters baby just brought back all these terrible memories.
I have too much baggage and I feel really ugly and horrible and not remotely feminine.
I thought I'd come to terms with it but then he told me that...I just don't know.
He was being nice and I was awful.
Somebody say something that helps. My DD4 is painting and I'm just sitting here at my desk, in tears. Lord only knows what she must think of me
I've just been on the phone to the egg donation centre as that will make me feel better, if I can donate my eggs to women who need IVF then I will be doing something worthwhile to benefit others and it will make me feel less bad about what happened.
The nurse is going to ring me in a minute. I must try to be positive about things.
Jo, I know that your dd loves you, getting a bit grouchy once in a while won't change the love for you. I also know how tough it is to lose a baby, W had a tubal pregnancy between D15 and S12. This was about 14 yrs ago and it still has left a hole in my heart. W had a rough time afterwards also.
Remember your goals and what you have worked so hard for. You have come to far to give up now. Jo don't let daily stress or past events to dictate your future. Remember you can vent all your feelings on this bb, try not to hold anything in. When I don't really vent on the bb how bad I really feel I end up snapping at someone in my family. I guess venting just lets me blow off a little steam at a time so I don't blow my lid.
Quote: I just can't bear this pain and I'm sitting here in tears. Sometimes I think I'd be better off being single and childless.
Jo, I can understand your feelings some and think it is somewhat normal for you to feel that way for the monent. I think many people feel like that sometimes. I am sorry you feel this way now. {{{{{Jo}}}}}
I read your post and see that some of the old deamons still exist. Loss of a baby, your old love nest and someone else there where you should be. Must hurt I imagine.
Quote: Then DD1 says 'Mummy, why don't you ever come to our house?'
I think guys can live in the old house or sleep on the their old bed with a different woman and not feel so bad. If the guy sleeps on the womans bed and thinks about her former H and the kids they made on that bed, well that might be a problem to some guys.
I think it is different for women. I think most women would feel the ghost of the former W in the old house or bed too, and really feel uncomfortable and not totally free. I think woman feel the OW in the house more than the man would if the situation were reversed. Most guys are in the house or bed with the physical woman that is standing before them. The ghost of the former woman is only very dim. I think women see the glaring ghost of the OW at times like these.
Quote: I have too much baggage and I feel really ugly and horrible and not remotely feminine.
Well Jo, I guess we are all here because of some baggage. Let's just you have lots of company. This too will pass. I know some days I am up and the next day down and not much has changed.
I have to go on a service call. Hope someone else chimes in to listen, or help you through this cloudy time.
I didn't mention the baby before as it was horrible so I just didn't want to write about it.
H and I reunited back then (in 2003) and I was living 2 days a week at his place, he was 2 days a week at my place, the rest of the week apart.
We were looking for a house. The pg was accidental, due to carelessness. We'd both been drinking on the evening of dd1's 7th birthday and we got a bit merry and just didn't bother. Of course, I caught immediately.
We were thrilled (even H, his response really surprised me, considering he didn't want anymore). The baby was due Boxing Day 03. Then I lost it, the grief was terrible, he got really angry and said he wanted a D.
3 months later, OW was on the scene.
Now H says he doesn't want anymore and wants a V. I told him when we got together, not to get a V and he accepted this. I said if he still wants a V in 5 years time, I will give him my blessing, and in the meantime, in this next 5 years we are using contraception religiously.
I am okay about it 99% of the time. It's just hearing about my sister's baby was awful. But to my H's defence, I don't think he realised how much loss I still feel over our child.
That's why I suddenly thought I can't do this, because I thought I can't live without my baby permanently, but I think it was just an upset reaction as I am calming down now.
He was still holding my hands and being nice, the poor man, I feel empathy for how awkward it must be for him. He wants dd's to see their grandmother and then there's my terrible R with her, he is caught in the middle really, which is why I wished he hadn't contacted her again.
It is straining our R when we've just got started.
I was very hurt when he first moved OW there but not so anymore, especially since they are no longer together.
Our sex life since has also not been a problem. I have heard that for some people when there has been a PA it affects things adversely in bed, but I have to say that since we reinstigated our sexual R, it has never crossed my mind that he was with her, as he is with me now.
He also forgave me for the (several) other people I slept with during that year so I feel as if I have nothing to complain about sexually.
I wouldn't mind going there and he has bought a new bed since they split up so it isn't the bed he slept with her in. Technically a virgin bed since he hasn't had sex with anyone in it.
My problem is, that Ex-OW still lives there, and bf stays a lot too and if I went round there I would have to make small talk with her and I really don't want to.
I don't dislike her, she's quite nice in some respects, and I can quite happily email the woman, but I just don't want to make small talk with her.
He hasn't told her we are together because she said to him the first time he came to me, that if he came to me again and didn't re-marry me, she would quit doing housework etc.
He's not keen on losing his cleaner before she finds her place, so he hasn't said anything. It would be awkward as heck if I had to tell her. She's fine with it as long as we re-marry because she says he has messed me around for long enough but the re-marriage thing hasn't happened yet so she'd totally fruit if she knew.
The woman has a temper that even I am scared of!
Once she leaves, and her kids leave, it will be easier to go round there.
H has asked before, several times for me to go there and I always say no. He seemed bothered this time when I said no. Do you think I should go there?
No, don't go there. You are insisting on a very appropriate boundary. And H needs to learn to respect it. Be gentle but firm about it.
I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your baby. As a man, H probably cannot fathom how much that loss affected you, but it is up to the two of you to process together at some point.
Try to hold onto the reality that you still have 4 wonderful daughters walking the earth with you. I know that a loss like that drags one back to the past, but try to focus on the present, the 'here-and-now' with your girls and your H. This will really help your DDs feel loved and accepted by you, and be fuller women when they grow up. They won't quite get your lose either, but that it not their responsibility. Their job is to play and to learn, and they'll learn about womanhood mainly from you. Try to give them as much access to your heart as you can. [When the moment is right, maybe even consider talking to the older one's about their sibling who died, but only after you're more comfortable doing so, and can help them through this information as their mother.]
You are definitely, completely not responsible for that loss, Jo. That was a horrid thing for H to say at the time. I hope that he has apologized for those words at some point.
If you are against H's V, are you sure that donating your eggs is a good idea at the moment?
He did apologise but not till months later. I can see why he feels like that, though. I had some bleeding problems with the pg and low HCG so we were going back and forth to the clinic for blood tests and scans. I saw the baby on the scan and then they said after another bleed, well, we could leave it and see what happens but it's pretty hopeless, or you can have a EPC (evacuation of products of conception)...I chose EPC (BIGGEST mistake of my life).
I should have left it up to God, I felt like a murderer and H told me I was one. He was furious.
I forgive him, he was hurting as much as me at the time.
I can accept not having anymore as we didn't plan more than 4 anyway, but the whole experience has just left me with this hole in my heart where my other child should be. He says I am mother of 4 as if that is supposed to comfort me, but I see myself as mother of 5. One is just with God instead of with me.
I feel guilty that I cried in front of my dd's now.
I have talked about womanhood a bit with my 9 yr old as when the contact re-started she was asking me about how I made Alicia and H couldn't handle telling her so I did. I told her about sex and periods and pregnancy. She wouldn't be bought off with the stork idea anymore.
Her response was 'yuck, that's disgusting!' I told her that when she gets older she will change her mind.
She asked me if childbirth hurts so I told her not if you stand up when you do it (it didnt hurt when standing up for me).
I must say, the convo was weird because I hadn't seen her for 8 months and she brought it up and wanted to ask me, so I was quite pleased that she still wanted to talk to me).
Re the egg donation, they don't take all of them, just a few, and according to the website www.donateanegg.co.uk it doesn't affect my fertility.
I just thought since I am probably not having anymore, then it might be nice to help an infertile woman.
Do you think if you get back with your W, you would ever think of giving S5 his baby brother, 'not a baby sister'?
I understand your and H's struggle better - thank you for sharing that. I'm sure its not the easiest thing to talk about, yet you probably need to. That was not a clear-cut situation for you, and it sounds like you both tried hard and felt the loss deeply. Usually, when we describe sitch's with "shoulds"/"oughts"/"musts", things are more complex than that oversimplifying.
I wonder - if you forgave yourself, would it be easier to accept your baby's loss and move back to the present more fully, both with H and with your children? From your H's apology and actions, he seems to have already forgiven you.
Boy, "The Birds and the Bees" convo - you are brave! LOL re your daughter's reaction. Ha!
In terms of having another child with W, yes indeed. I'd love to. I always wanted a big family, whereas W thought 3 then 2 then 1. I'm a bit rusty now, so we'd have to practice. My motto would be: "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again!"
but the re-marriage thing hasn't happened yet so she'd totally fruit if she knew.
