He's leaving

[NYsurvivor]

They say not to offer up an "ILY", because that will bring the focus to the WAS's mind as to why they don't feel the same way, and that's something you don't want them thinking on.

[sun387]

JV

Well there were definately some positives in that convo with H. I know how you feel about the ILY's. I want to say it too, but my heart cant take the I KNOW response I will get. Sometimes I think that in my sitch, the no touching, no ILY's are so far gone now, that H really feels that he doesnt feel that way for me. He has totally convinced himself of that, but then why stay home. It looks to me like your H is on the right path tho. It appears he does want to salvage the R, just give it some time.

Sun

[ValerieA]

Hi there.

NY - Yes, I remember that I'm not supposed to offer any "ILY"s. That's why I withheld from doing so, but I don't think in my sitch that it would hurt to actually do it once in a blue moon. Sometimes I think I need to test the water, but just not too much. Plus, there's the fear I have of getting a response that I don't want. Like when I was giving H the "alright", "ok", or "I know" when he said "ILY" first.

Sun - Thanks for reminding me of the positives again. It always helps. You're right - time and patience. These are the hardest things I have to deal with now. I have been continuing GAL and detaching a bit, but it's the time and patience stuff that's killing me. So beat that into my head, ok?

Thanks for listening.

[unsure70]

Hey JV, it sounds like the "no contact" is working out well. Obviously this time away with no pressure has him thinking. IMO, if your H can work through his guilt your M can be great again. He is not happy at home because it reminds him of what an ass he was to do what he did and now he has to face the reality of screwing up a really good thing (no offense). I'm not saying your M was perfect, none are...he just needs to work through his feelings, unfortunately you can't do that for him.

I will say that you are lucky to have Sage's advice...she is right on!

have a good weekend!
Unsure

[ValerieA]

Hi, Unsure. Thanks for stopping by.

I agree. This time with no contact (well, hardly any) does seem to have him thinking, and that IS what I was really hoping for. Even if he comes back with the decision to leave. And, yes, I totally agree about Sage's advice. She is undoubtedly right on!

Not much to report about today. The kids and I enjoyed a laid-back day.

I had the boys call H about 15 minutes ago, but he didn't answer, so they left him a voicemail. Then the phone rang within 5 minutes of their call. I figured it was H so I told S9 to go ahead and answer the phone. It was, they talked, then they hung up.

Only 5 or 6 more days to go. I'm not too nervous right now, but as H's arrival gets closer, I know I will be much more.

Thanks.

[dodgermf]

JV,

I just wanted to say I think you are doing great. Keep it up!!

DMF

P.S. BTW I'm sure the Giants were happy to get on that plane out of town yesterday morning. Now they can go to Phoenix and get beat up by the D-Backs...LOL

[ValerieA]

Hi all.

I've been thinking again.

I was reading another thread where the poster wrote that their LBS stated if they found out the WAS had a PA, the LBS would leave immediately and file for a D. The WAS admitted to the EA but not the PA and is contemplating whether or not to do so. Could this WAS still be dealing with guilt because, yes, they had a PA, and just knowing that what they've done would devastate their LBS even more? Did that make sense?

I'm wondering and asking because of the guilt my H is still dealing with. I'm going back to pre-bomb here (please forgive me if I ramble):

I felt for some time that there may have been something going on, but of course, whenever I approached H with my concerns, he always denied it (and he never got upset with me for asking such questions - he was always loving in his responses). I believe it was around Sept 04 when I began having my suspicions. We just had the baby and H was away alot for work. He was going out to bars all the time with co-workers while he was gone, and when he was here, he wasn't really here. Always gone doing something.

After Thanksgiving (the A started in early Oct 04 - that was as far as I could go back into his phone records) while H was in AZ for work, I went into the garage to look for the staplegun. It wasn't where we usually kept it, so I began looking through H's toolboxes he used for work. I opened one box that had staples, etc in it and came across condoms as well. Yes. Condoms. We used condoms as our means for birth control for the majority of our life together, but why were THESE condoms in H's toolbox? We had the baby in Sept 04 and I had my tubes tied - this was late Nov 04 and we obviously didn't need them. Ok, they could have been old, but why would they be in H's toolbox? They were always by the bedside before - ALWAYS.

I wanted an explanation and called H. He started asking me questions like, "Where did you find them? What kind are they? Why are you looking through my stuff? How many are there?" WHAT KIND ARE THEY?! HOW MANY ARE THERE?! I couldn't believe those questions! Here I am asking why H has condoms in his toolbox, and he's asking me these kinds of questions! I told him they were the same exact kind we ALWAYS used, and what difference did it make if there was 1 or 20 condoms in there. H said, "Yeah, you're right." H then said maybe he bought them a long time ago and just never brought them inside (which I believe was BS because everytime we bought some, we intended to use them that night so why wouldn't they be brought inside?). Then H changed his mind and said maybe they belonged to his friend. WHAT? Why would another grown man leave something like condoms in his best friend's garage?! In H's toolbox no less?! I wasn't buying it, but H kept insisting that he was doing nothing wrong even though he "had plenty of opportunity to." Yes, those were his exact words. With that said, I told H, "Well, thank you so much, H! That makes me feel a whole lot better!", then I hung up. H called back and said he was sorry for saying that, and again, he told me there was nothing for me to worry about.

We were VERY intimate after that! I have to admit, was the best it had ever been! Maybe it was due to not having to worry about birth control anymore . Who knows?

One night in late Dec 04, H went to a poker party, but didn't come home that night. That had NEVER happened before. H came home after noon the next day, and needless to say, I was absolutely furious! His excuse was that he had too much to drink and passed out at the guy's house......This was the bad turning point as far as went in our R. It had stopped completely. There was still alot of flirting going on between us, and I tried time and time again to initiate ML, but I was always turned down. H stopped initiating altogether. This is also when H's hugs and kisses seemed very empty and distant. Then finally one day in Jan 05 (about a week or two before the bomb dropped), I just asked if we could , so we did, and H was SOOO different. When I looked at H at one point, he had a pillow over his face . There were times when he would be looking out the window instead of at me like he always had. H also liked to talk while ML, but he said nothing that time. Again, his kisses were empty. Immediately afterwards, H jumped in the shower. That wasn't normal for him at all.

Ok, so end of Jan 05, the A is out there. We were going through all the emotions, and somehow H was feeling more sexual towards me than ever. One night not too long after the A was discovered, H initiated . He knew I was still a bit uneasy with kissing because all I could see was H kissing OW. H started kissing me tenderly saying, "I never kissed her the way I kiss you, JV. Never." I asked again (I say again because I asked post-bomb), "Did you sleep with her?" H said no. I then said, "Not that what's happened hasn't hurt me enough, but if you did sleep with her, H, that would really kill me." It was dark, but when I said that, I saw H's face cringe. It looked like he wanted to cry but was doing everything he could to hold back.

There were several more times after that where I saw H had the pillow over his face while ML. It has bothered me, but I never have said anything about it.

This just has me wondering. Finding the unexplained condoms in the garage, H not coming home that night, ML stopped, the pillow thing, H's cringe when I said what I said, and the guilt he still has even though I have forgiven him for his EA and told him so many times. Is it possible that H had a PA (well, I know anything's possible), is having the guilt associated with that, and can't get through it because he knows that if I knew about it, then that would really be it for us? Is this what he could be keeping inside? Is this why he is afraid of what might happen to us? Most WASs want to move on and forget about everything, but my H is having big time trouble with that. I'm the one who wants to move on when it seems like it should be the opposite.

Thanks for listening.

[ValerieA]

Thanks, D. And about the Giants....

Yeah, yeah....

It's early, D! It's still early!

[sage]

Hi there,

I'd be careful trying to figure out the source/extent of h's guilt and jumping to conclusions (OK, you were just mulling, right?). Sure, yes, I suppose he could have had a PA and that could be leading to his guilt...he could also have WANTED to had one (but didn't for lots of reasons) and that could be a powerful guilt inducer as well...OR maybe he's completely guilt ridden over the EA! also, just because "other" WASes appear to want to forget and move on, don't underestimate the depth of their guilt of EA's or the like...not everyone shows guilt in the same way, right? so a WAS that pushes it all inside may be feeling equally guilty as h who appears to be laying it all out there.

I spent a bunch of time contemplating whether or not h had a PA and mostly I guess I've moved past it. (don't forget, though, it's been 2.5 years!).

Would it change what you're doing right now?

Finally, and I mean this as gently as possible...you say that you want to "move on" but, TBH, if I were your h I think I would feel confused about that at times (and perhaps that's contributing to his guilt?)...there are times (least from your posts) where it seems like your interactions with h signal that, in fact, you're NOT ready to move on from the topic. That's perfectly understandable...but it may also be a factor in his guilt/reaction to you so I thought I would (gently, kindly, best interest at heart! ) mention it.

Sage

[ValerieA]

Thank you, Sage.

I was just mulling things over like you said and not trying to jump to any conclusions.

Everyone DOES deal with guilt differently.

It's just been alot harder for me to understand why H has so much guilt. There have been alot of lies from H and at times I feel like I don't know all there is to know about his A. I feel like he's still keeping something from me. Part of me wants to know every detail, but the other part says "no way"!

You're probably right. Maybe I am in fact not ready to move on. I feel like I am because I just want to forget about what's happened and to some extent so does H, but am I moving (or trying to move) too fast for him? It seems like if I try to slow down, then I get to thinking and this is when I start to hurt myself with all these thoughts - "why is H still feeling guilty? Did they or didn't they? Are they or aren't they?" It can go on and on if I don't speed it up again.

I honestly don't know if it would change what I'm doing now.

I guess I should stop trying to "dissect" what's going on with H and just try to be happy since he hasn't left yet. I have to accept the fact that I cannot speed up the process for him. Maybe not even for myself. I just want my life back, but this time without everything that got us here.

Like I keep saying, time and patience are not easy for me. I know - that's just tough and too bad! I'm trying though, I really am.

Thanks again.