We've been going to this really good MC lately. Very intelligent, very good at drawing me out, very good at giving us "assignments," and, of course, the lady introduced me to the Enneagram.
Here's the problem: Ms. HDog said to me last night that she needs to be able to trust me. No problem there, not an unreasonable request, right? But she starts criticizing me for the types of things I share with the MC. Says that she wonders about my "motives." Says she thinks she I'm trying to ally with the MC and get the MC to see W as "the bad guy." Says that I'm trying to sabotage the counseling so that I can get out of the M and say, "I tried, but W wasn't into counseling."
She said that telling the MC things that W tells me in confidence, is hurting our marriage. But, her definition of "in confidence" seems to be growing wider and wider. For instance, she was angry because I told the MC during my one on one appointment that W felt "attacked" during the previous session. W said that, when the MC talked about this at our most recent appointment, she felt like getting up and walking out.
"How would you like it if I told MC that you didn't like her lifestyle?" (We suspect that MC is a lesbian, and no, I don't have a problem with her lifestyle at all). I answered, "assuming I would say such a thing, I don't care if you shared that with her. Anything that you think would be helpful to working on our marriage should be open season for the counselor to hear." W: And in what way was it helpful to our marriage to tell MC that I felt "attacked" by her? H: Well, first of all, I didn't say that you felt attacked by HER, just that you felt attacked. Second, I thought that sharing that with her might help her counsel you in ways by which you would not feel attacked. W: So you were trying to rescue me? H: No, I was trying to help the R.
And so it goes.
We have an appointment today, and I feel like, if I am to help foster an emotional closeness with my W, I can't say anything. Yet I know that me not saying anything will piss her off, too. (Not that I intend to sit there like a bump on a log, but I am really confused)
I'm not even looking for guidance, per se, from y'all; just venting a bit.
Don't ya just hate the damned if you do and damned if you don't situations? Why does W even care if the C knows how she felt at the last session? Your W is definately complex
Saw on the Nanny, of all places, that H and W didnt communicate about family matters. Then it was child disipline, here its talking w/C. On the way there, ask W to list what is "legal" to talk about today. And have her go thru the list w/C.
Damn, I hope for you two the C sessions are better than for me.
Good wishes and luck!
Pity me that the heart is slow to learn
What the swift mind beholds at every turn.
Edna St. Vincent Millay
You say that your C is "very good at drawing me out, very good at giving us "assignments"....
Is she good at drawing out your wife? It doesn't really sound like it, just from what you've posted. And what sort of "assignments" have you gotten? Anything physical? If so, I'm curious how your wife has done with them... does she react in horror, or does she at least give it the ol' college try?
- Paul, who has never gone to MC, so please excuse any ignorant questions...
Quote: Here's the problem: Ms. HDog said to me last night that she needs to be able to trust me. No problem there, not an unreasonable request, right? But she starts criticizing me for the types of things I share with the MC. Says that she wonders about my "motives." Says she thinks she I'm trying to ally with the MC and get the MC to see W as "the bad guy." Says that I'm trying to sabotage the counseling so that I can get out of the M and say, "I tried, but W wasn't into counseling."
She's capable of explaining and defending herself with the counselor. She's also a big girl and can express her concerns to the counselor, as well. What you can't allow her to do is stifle you in the counselling sessions in the same way she stifles you at home.
Quote: She said that telling the MC things that W tells me in confidence, is hurting our marriage. But, her definition of "in confidence" seems to be growing wider and wider. For instance, she was angry because I told the MC during my one on one appointment that W felt "attacked" during the previous session. W said that, when the MC talked about this at our most recent appointment, she felt like getting up and walking out.
If the symptoms cannot be fully and truthfully brought up, then it is the equivalent of giving your medical doctor your 2 most socially acceptable physical difficulties while leaving out the 15 not-so-attractive aspects of your ailment.
She/He cannot make an accurate diagnosis based on carefully chosen input meant to misrepresent the situation.
I would encourage you to tell your wife that your goal is not and has not been to do anything *to* her. Your goal is to find a mutually acceptable solution to your marriage issues. That means that both of you will have to speak the sometimes unpleasant opinions of each other and the occasionally unattractive ways you might deal with each other.
Quote: We have an appointment today, and I feel like, if I am to help foster an emotional closeness with my W, I can't say anything. Yet I know that me not saying anything will piss her off, too. (Not that I intend to sit there like a bump on a log, but I am really confused)
I wouldn't be an ass about it, but please do not let your wife hamstring you in this. If you don't feel that you can speak up in the session concerning your wife's rapidly growing parameters of what you can and can't talk about, I would look at meeting or phone consulting with the counselor privately and let her know what you're dealing with at home on this issue. That way she has a more accurate representation of what is going on.
I would suspect that your wife knows that what she is doing is outside the bounds of what most folks would think as acceptable and she's going to start squirming even more if her actions are brought into the light of day.
Keep your focus on yourself and do not speak for your wife. Talk about your feelings, your actions, and let the C work on drawing out your wife. If she really is a good C, she has already figured out that your W likes to keep the focus on you, because that way she is not forced to change or introspect.
Take the high road, speak only about your own feelings, no tattling on what she said in confidence to you re: the C, and let her dig her own grave. She'll do it soon enough, don't you worry.
HD, reading your post made me want to scream! Your W is one tough nut to crack. You're just going to have to say what you need to say and if she gets mad, she gets mad. Something has to break the deadlock you're in. If I were you, I'd be tempted the next time the two of you go in to totally rat her out. Something like (and this is in front of your wife): "Wife really got mad at me that I told you she felt attacked. I'd like to talk about that today and clear the air." Just haul it out and slap it on the table.
Your W is one terrified, controlling human being. Your task is to let her get really mad and see that it doesn't destroy you-- that in fact it doesn't hurt you one bit. I would recommend Undefended Love (I know: one MORE book-- but I think this is the LAST relationship book you will ever need). You are not CAUSING her to get mad-- the anger has been in her for a long time; you are triggering it. And as you point out, your talking makes her mad, your not talking makes her mad. In fact, if there's one thing that you've learned, it's that no matter what you do, you can't STOP her from being mad. That alone should convince you that her anger is totally outside your control.
But on the flip side: your fear of her anger is totally your responsibility (and therefore, happily, totally within your control). She does not MAKE you uncomfortable or scared or whatever you get when she's mad. It was already in you from the past and she triggers it. You selected a partner who WOULD trigger those feelings so you would have the opportunity and challenge of healing that part of you. Her anger cannot damage you. Feeling uncomfortable will not kill you. Her being in a snit doesn't have to ruin your day. I guess that's something else you've learned over the years; you don't die from what she does to you.
I think you need to take the item "Keep W from getting mad at me" totally OFF your daily to-do list. As one boss of mine used to say, "She'll just have to get glad in the clothes she got mad in."
Hey Paul, I meant to answer your question about the "assignments." Yes, the MC told my wife to be more physical, namely, more kisses, hugs, touches ... all non-sexual. Has she done it? No. Her excuses are all because of something I did or did not do, which made her feel like not touching me.
This will likely be a topic of conversation today.
I really think that you need to lay it all on the line with this. Like all the other ladies have said you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. He won't touch you because she says that you are not trustworthy. If you didn't say anything she would say that you are not open enough or that you are with holding or any of about 10,000 other reasons. If you want to get this stuff resolved you need to talk about it.
It sounds to me like your wife wants to be in complete control of you. You already know this. I really think this is all coming from a place that she is losing that control so now she is going to make excuses. Instead of looking into herself and see why she needs to be in total control.
So what do you have to lose by letting it all hang out?
