Well I finally got W to agree to a schedule. Once a week, on saturdays. The day was her choice; I couldn't care less. I figure the schedule, any schedule, is a great starting point. If we stuck to a weekly schedule it would be literally 10 times more sex than I normally get, so who am I to complain.
So the first weekend rolls around, and I bring up the subject. We need to get the kids (7 and 3) out of the house for a couple of hours. Plenty of willing grandparents, so this shouldn't be a problem. What is her response? A lengthy list of things she needs to get done this weekend. So we probably won't have time. Gotta clean the house for a party we're having next weekend (seriously!). Gotta get supplies for S7's school project. Got some work she wants to do in the yard. On and on.
She doesn't say so directly, but what I hear is a list of things that are more important than our crazy little sex schedule scheme. More important than working on our marriage. How else could I take it?
I was pretty stunned by this and didn't really say anything. She took my silence (this was a phone conversation) as anger. But really, I'm just sort of speechless. And feeling hopeless. She knows how important this is. We've discussed it over and over. I've written emails and letters, chosen every word carefully. She knows how painful it is for me, and still she breaks our very first saturday date.
Saturday has come and gone now, and I didn't really call her on it. I'm going to though; I've got to. This can't go on. What makes her think she can treat me this way? Unfortunately, I know the answer to that question: experience. A decade of experience proves that I'll take the crap and come back for more. I have to change that dynamic. Let her know I really won't take it forever. This is a crisis in our marriage.
The rest of you, take a minute to peruse it and think up something witty and encouraging to say. All thoughts welcome. My wife has had some health problems that have basically prevented any evolution in our sexual relationship for most of the past year. I'm not complaining about that, her health is the most important thing. I mention it as an explanation of what has happened (nothing!) between now and my last post on my situation, many months ago.
We're finally at a place where we can move it forward, and so far the results are not encouraging.
It's late, I'm tired and depressed, and I'm not going to bother proofreading this post. So, someone please call me and let me know if I've left my real full name in here anywhere.
"but what I hear is a list of things that are more important than our crazy little sex schedule scheme. More important than working on our marriage."
You need to tell her this is how you feel....you need to tell her that when she said this to you and chose not to stick to your schedule that you feel that you and your marriage feel to the list of her priorities and were unimportant.
If you don't say these things you can't assume that she will just know how it affects you. She obviously still does not really "get it".
Quote: I was pretty stunned by this and didn't really say anything. She took my silence (this was a phone conversation) as anger. But really, I'm just sort of speechless. And feeling hopeless. She knows how important this is. We've discussed it over and over. I've written emails and letters, chosen every word carefully. She knows how painful it is for me, and still she breaks our very first saturday date.
This is probably the most difficult time in the scheduled sex endeavor. As you have seen, it is easy for it to get shortcircuited.
I feel fairly confident in asserting that she has had the thought that if it was important to you, you would have spoken up.
In our initial phase of recovery, I would get my shower and then wait for NOP to make the first move. Since I was the skittish partner, he was waiting for me to make the first move. And in would come bounding the frustration and more.
You need to plan ahead. Did she clearly say that her day was too busy therefore you couldn't have your date? Or did she start listing her litany of "things I must do" and you took it as her way of cancelling the date? I am not saying that she very well may have been doing so, or that you misread her. But, stunned silence isn't productive, nor is it going to get you closer to a solution.
If you can step back out of the emotional aspect of it (and I know that is hard), then there were actually a couple of things you could have done.
1. Honey, I know that we've got a lot scheduled, let's make a list and divvy up what must be done so that we can follow through with our plan. (or some variation)
or
2. Honey, I'm not sure whether or not I am misreading you, but are you saying you want to cancel our plan?
Initially, there's a lot of tiptoe-ing around. For there to be true progress, someone has to step outside their comfort zone and attempt to lay out each situation clearly.
You both went for what was most comfortable - what you've both been doing all along. When you step out of the comfort zone, *she* will have to step out as well.
Whether she uses it as an opportunity to lambast you for your "lack of empathy" (I am not saying she is justified) in order to NOT do what you have agreed to or that by having you drag it *out into the light* then she is forced to *consciously* acknowledge her choice to refuse to do what she had agreed to or actually follow through.
Quote: You need to tell her this is how you feel....you need to tell her that when she said this to you and chose not to stick to your schedule that you feel that you and your marriage feel to the list of her priorities and were unimportant.
If you don't say these things you can't assume that she will just know how it affects you. She obviously still does not really "get it".
Tell her this....and don't mince your words.
Absolutely right, and I should have done it immediately. I'm hoping to have just that conversation tonight, if we can get our kids to sleep and get some time together. It's hard to believe she doesn't "get it" after all the times we've talked about it, but that's where we are! Thanks for the reply....
Quote: I feel fairly confident in asserting that she has had the thought that if it was important to you, you would have spoken up.
That's a really interesting statement, and I've been thinking a lot about it. I think it's more likely she just thinks I'll back off and not push the issue. If she can put it off, it will just go away. The truth is that both of us have fairly passive personalities and will avoid conflict if possible. That's why this has gone on so long. I'm trying to figure out how to change that.
Quote: You need to plan ahead. Did she clearly say that her day was too busy therefore you couldn't have your date? Or did she start listing her litany of "things I must do" and you took it as her way of cancelling the date?
She just started listing the things. But trust me, I didn't misread her. The date was off.
Quote: But, stunned silence isn't productive, nor is it going to get you closer to a solution.
I know! I choked.... what else can I say?
Quote: 1. Honey, I know that we've got a lot scheduled, let's make a list and divvy up what must be done so that we can follow through with our plan. (or some variation)
Perfect! That's exactly what I should have said. Damn. Did you ever see "Roxanne" with Steve Martin? I need you hiding outside in the bushes, listening in on our conversations and telling me what to say.
Quote: Whether she uses it as an opportunity to lambast you for your "lack of empathy" (I am not saying she is justified) in order to NOT do what you have agreed to or that by having you drag it *out into the light* then she is forced to *consciously* acknowledge her choice to refuse to do what she had agreed to or actually follow through.
Does that make sense?
Yep, sure does. Man this stuff is tiring. It's the same thing over and over. When she went into her spiel about how busy she was, I knew we were back to the same old thing. It felt like getting kicked in the stomach. Have I mentioned that I've heard every excuse in the book for sex-avoidance? Being busy is just one. Being tired is another favorite. Various aches and pains are popular too.
Anyway, we're going to have another "talk." Gotta strap on the brass balls and move things out of the "comfort zone", as you say. We'll see how it goes!
It is hard to accept that they just don't get it isn't it? I mean, we as the HD person, feel that we are trying and trying and trying to get them to understand how important the issue is to us...BUT when someone doesn't view the problem as a problem for them...then it's really hard to get them to see how it truly does affect YOU.
It's taken me a good year to get my H to really understand and begin to take affirmative action, for some it may take less time....other's longer. Don't give up
I wanted to encourage you to be as explicit as possible when talking to your wife. I have had about 2042 conversations with my husband about our sex life and STILL my euphemisms sometimes sail right over his head. At that point, I take a deep breath and say, No H I really meant xyz..... I used to just let him carry on thinking whatever he was thinkin cause I didn't want to look like a fanatic and keep talking about sex explicitly in broad daylight.
Here is an example (much more info than you need, sorry): We have not been able to have much of a sex life for the last 3 months, due to a chronic infection that I have. This past week I was reaching a point of despondency due to lack of physical touching. I had been asking my H to remember to touch me, even though it could not progress to sex but this is something he evidently has a very hard time remembering. I asked on Thursday night and Friday night, too, with netted me some absent minded light touches (approx 3) in between intriguing scenes on the movie he was watching. I felt myself getting deeper and deeper into sadness and depression--not all of it due to him, much is due to the situation itself, but I can only ask so many times before I feel like he flat out doesn't care. Anyway! By Saturday I was down and sad and feeling sorry for myself. He asked what was wrong and I attempted to explain it to him, that even though we can't have sex, I still need intimate touching in my life. Otherwise I seriously feel like a flower withering. He blamed the infection and blah blah and I said: I feel like you've gone away on vacation and I keep asking you to remember to 'call me' and you are forgetting day after day. He replies, What do you mean? I always call you...sometimes I call you a couple times a day from work, sometimes I email you...
I realized Doh! he's totally not following my brilliant analogy!! (JJ I'm not..)
So I let it drop for a few minutes, during which time I was deciding whether I should proceed with trying to tell him or let it all go. I decided to jump right back in (even though I reallllly didn't want to) because otherwise those unspoken words would turn into resentment. So I did. And this time I skipped "light" words and breezy tones and went right to the heart of the matter.
It turned out much better.
So this was a long winded way of saying to brace yourself for speaking in EXACT terms or your hard earned spot on the "floor" will be wasted.
I for one LOVED your analogy. It hit home with me, because I feel the same way. I mean, okay, don't have sex with me. But give me something, here! How about a kiss with a little tongue, or the occasional mindless grope?
Anyway....
We did have a bit of a talk last night though it didn't go quite as planned. She took a sleeping pill right before I started talking to her, and dozed off in the middle of our conversation. Good thing I saw her take the pill, or I'd just think I must be really boring! I managed to get in the most important point, which is how unimportant her response had made me feel. I didn't wimp out or beat around the bush. I mentioned a couple of specific things we had done on the weekend which we managed to find time for, that weren't really very important. She told me about how overwhelmed she feels sometimes with everything going on. She did seem to understand my point, though. We didn't really come to a conclusion, so to be continued, I guess..... I think it was at least a small step foward.
She did say something interesting, about how this all shouldn't be such a difficult thing. It should just be natural. I agree with that, of course! Sheesh, I'm not the one making it difficult....
Sorry, but this just cracked me up. Good thing you didn't use any of the "steak" analogies. Sheesh, could you imagine him trying to understand some of JJ's posts?
