except that H is NOT initiating R talk at all - that's what he told me when he dropped the Bomb
bustingonline1, oh I misread. It sounded as if he was discussing these things with you now.
On the one hand, he had said that 'not talking to him enough or discussing serious issues openly' was lacking, and so continuing not to talk is more of the same behavior... on the other hand to start these discussions would be a 180 but would be bringing up R talk... Hmmm. Gotta put my thinking cap on...
I'm going to err on the side of DB and say: No R talk initiated by you. That 'not discussing issues' and all were things he told you when he dropped the bomb, so he's past thinking in terms of you and him needing to discuss the relationship... So that may not be where to 180. I seriously doubt that 'not discussing issues' is the only area that needed changing, and if I'm right about that, there are a few other areas that may be just as or more significant to your H that are worthy of your attention. Look for behaviors of yours that need to be purged and new behaviors to be learned in their place. I'd also say get into more conversations with him about anything other than the relationship, since he had felt you didn't talk to him enough.
And if the "180" from NOT initiating sex ends up like that, how on EARTH am I supposed to humiliate myself like that again?
Just a thought: Maybe it's just OK to initiate sexual relations and be intimate and physically loving and not focus so much on whether orgasms were achieved or not and that the sex act fizzled out and he gave up and rolled over, which is the scenario I'm getting from your description. Not all love making sessions end in orgasm (I must've read that somewhere) and there obviously are some things with him, either mental or physical, that are interfering with his performance. It was late at night and he was tired, for example. There need not be associated with that the humiliation and pain you felt. Looking at things a little bit differently, changes in the way we think about things, result in different thoughts, and upon those thoughts come different feelings.
Might he also be sexually involved with the OW? That may play into it too, but I brought that up mainly to tell you to please protect yourself!
His behavior the next morning, what you deemed as duplistic, he doesn't see it that way. By the next morning he had already left the ML session behind and being emotionally divorced from you, he can tell you he's leaving and invite you to brunch in the same breath. He's not thinking about how his actions affect you. That's why you must practice becoming detached from how his actions affect you. I try to say to myself, when I get tossed one of those WAS WTFs, I say, "Well, what can I expect? She's a WAW. It is what it is. It doesn't mean anything that I should get upset over. What else can I expect from a WAS?" And that's the thing, that our WASs are going to act like WASs. So expect that there will plenty of WTFs, and just let them roll off your back.
And good for you for leaving the cell phone alone.
sill_n_love333, I don't know where I've been all your life, but I'm available now! Thank you for your unexpected compliment.
Bustingonline1 - I didn't look at it as "one upping" me! Don't worry! I just wish Wednesday with the MC would hurry up and get here so I can get some answers. I won't bring up anything of significance until we're in that closed room with MC. I'm going to try my best anyway.
Last night before the humiliation, H asked if I wanted him to wake me up when he was leaving or set my alarm since we didn't have to get up because it's spring break. I usually get up first and wake him up when I'm almost ready on school days. Anyway, I told him to wake me up when he leaves. Well guess what....he didn't. Didn't set my alarm either. Obviously didn't want to have to talk to me or God forbid TOUCH me to wake me up! So I don't really understand why he didn't set the alarm then. He'll probably call her in a bit to "see if I'm up". No mention of why he didn't wake me or set the alarm I'm sure.
Try to have a good day and I'll be checking in periodically all day!
Obviously didn't want to have to talk to me or God forbid TOUCH me to wake me up! So I don't really understand why he didn't set the alarm then. He'll probably call her in a bit to "see if I'm up".
That's your interpretation of your H's actions and may or may not actually be correct. Your last sentence in the quote is an attempt to predict what will happen in the future, and again you may or may not be correct. Just pointing out that doing this sort of stuff doesn't have a positive pay off, but it sure does have a negative one.
Last night before the humiliation
Well, again, you had stormed off earlier, and then there you are asking him to lay next to you, and though I have no idea what his thoughts were, he asks you whether you were asking him to lay next to so as to cuddle, and you had in mind making love, and instead of answering his question directly or taking the initiative to show what's on your mind, you turned defensive and said, "Forget it!" because he didn't read your mind.
I can tell you that, as a guy, what would've been going through my mind that would've made me ask, "you mean to cuddle?" would be that I'm not sure if you want to ML or just cuddle, and if I initiate making love, you might get pissed off again, and I'm trying to avoid that. So really I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. Now I can't say that's what your H was thinking... but he asked for clarification of your intent, and there's a reason he asked, whatever that reason was, and you expected him to just know what you wanted.
Now, rather than now labeling the episode as "the humiliation", and having some misery associated with it, wouldn't it be far better to drop that label and look at the dynamics of your interactions and examine how they could've been bettered - without placing the responsibility or blame for that in H's court in doing so - so that the next time around the situation is improved?
I just don't get how you have become to be so level headed and reasonable. Give me some of that would ya?
You're right about not reading his mind. We've been together for almost 20 years now, you'd think he would have perfected that by now. ha
I asked him why he didn't wake me up or set the alarm this morning and he said he thought I said not to do either. Don't really believe him, but I'll go with that for now.
Since it's spring break, I asked H if he might think about skipping tae kwon do tonight since he has a dinner meeting both Tues and Wed and he said he would come straight home tonight. Thought that was nice. Unfortunately, one D has soccer practice and is having a friend spend the night and now the other D has asked to have a friend over too! Now do I call him and tell him forget about skipping tae kwon do since the girls will be busy with their friends? Or do I tell him the girls are having friends over but if he still wants to skip TKD to just spend the time with me that would be ok too? Just don't want it to backfire and have him then say, well guess I'll just go to TKD then.
I just read through your thread and I want to tell you that everything you are feeling, doing, saying, I have done in the past. When I snooped, yelled, screamed, cried, accussed..........you name it, my H went into a "cave" and never came out. I read and re-read DB and started (very small steps) to do everything by the book. My H has had 2, maybe 3 OW in the past three years(pretty scarey stuff), you have to decide where you want your M to go. If you want to salvage it, then you have to stop what you are doing. Detach, let him spin out of control, by himself, with OW, however he can. You can not FIX what you did not break, HIM!! You need to focus on yourself and children. I bet your H blames you for all his unhappiness, right!! You're an intelligent woman, you know that is not true, but maybe you contributed to it somehow. We all play a role in the demise of a marriage, even in little ways. Maybe your H is going through a full blown MLC? Once I stopped the R talk, and asking about OW, or worse demaninding that he dump OW, things became better. My H does not live here, but he lives right down the street from me, so I basically see his every move from a not so far away distance. I know this is hard stuff......Try one small change (for yourself), not him, for your sanity. And move from there, act like you don't give a damn....about him, OW or amything to do with him. Do your own thing!! My H has been hanging out around the house a lot lately, has given me flowers, small gifts, extra money for things, etc. I thank him till I'm blue in the face.......is OW still in his life? I'm not sure, but I view her as a non-entity now. He recently told a freind that he has fought with her more times in one year than he did with me in 20......how's that for moving onto something better??? You're H needs you now more than ever, I know that sounds hard to believe, but he needs your support, love and caring ways. Treat him like a casual freind.........it will make you feel better and probably him too. I usually post on the MLC bd, because my husband is in the middle of a major MLC, but I stopped by here today. Good luck in your sitch, keep your head up and smile.......
You want some? I don't have that much to spare nowadays, but here goes:
Ditto stillalone3, treat your H like you would a good friend. That serves to guide you in answering your latest question:
Now do I call him and tell him forget about skipping tae kwon do since the girls will be busy with their friends? Or do I tell him the girls are having friends over but if he still wants to skip TKD to just spend the time with me that would be ok too?
I don't know about you, but if your H were my friend, I'd advise him of the change in circumstances and then leave it up to him to figure out his options and decide what he wants to do.
Just don't want it to backfire and have him then say, well guess I'll just go to TKD then.
And if you leave it up to him to think for himself, nothing will backfire... but never act based on what you think another's reaction is bound to be or what their thoughts may be. When you do that, you're making an assumption and you may be totally wrong. And then what additionally happens when you act based on imagined future scenarios is that you automatically cancel out what real life would've brought about, which may be just the thing your sitch needs. Life dishes out results in ways that we don't always see coming out our situations.
Thank you for your encouraging words still alone and once AGAIN NY. Thanks for trying to give me a little of your wisdom. I really am trying to just treat him as I would a friend. That little voice is still in my head saying, don't fall for his niceness around here because it will only upset me more when I find out he is still calling the OW. I know, I know.....not the right attitude. I did call H and tell him of our change of plans. He didn't say whether he was going to TKD or come home. Guess I'll just have to wait and see... H just called. The dinner meeting he thought was tomorrow is tonight. So he's off the hook to decide whether he wanted to come home and hang with me or go to TKD. He did say that since the dinner meeting is tonight then he'll be able to just come straight home tomorrow night. OK, feeling a little better. It seems like I let things get me down so easily...like the being turned down in the bedroom thing last night. It's funny, last night when I was typing all of that in, I was SURE that meant he was probably leaving for sure. His voice sounds so different today. Maybe it's not his voice...maybe it's my ears. You are all really wonderful for listening and giving your takes on my situation. I would have never dreamed that I would be getting help and encouragement from total strangers!
Just don't want it to backfire and have him then say, well guess I'll just go to TKD then. 
