Soccermom - I can't believe how similar our situations are! H told me he would consider giving up OW, and eventually he said he would in this "process", but "he didn't think it was fair" that he had to - FAIR!!!! He's known her for one year, me for 25 - and she gets the same length "process" that I do for clearing things up and he wants things to be FAIR for for the two of them!!! I couldn't believe he said that to me - but of course, how many other things couldn't I believe he said to me (some of which, of course, he later said he didn't say).
I messed up last night and pissed him off, but it was almost - I have to be honest - only almost unintentional. We were coming back from a meeting and I needed to run into the market for a minute and he stayed in the car and parked. He didn't see me when I came out and when I opened the door and got in the car it sure seemed to me that he put up his cell phone really fast and he quickly said ("I'm sorry - I didn't see you - I would have driven up there" - by the way, a much more sympathetic and considerate remark than is typical for him. I said "You don't have to get off the phone." Now...I've said that before (like before the Bomb) and meant it and he didn't react in any way to it - just me being considerate and accommodating. But this time, he scowled and said "I was on the phone with so-snd-so (a family friend)!!" and emanated hostility for the rest of the night. Hmmm...wonder wat that reaction was about - maybe that he calls OW every time I'm out of his sight????
Seriously, though, why would that piss him off - shouldn't that show him that I'm through pressuring him about her? Maybe he doesn't think I've seen his cell phone call records and that I don't know he's still talking to her, so in his alien world he's mad that my comment indicated that I didn't believe him when he said he'd break it off with her so I'm evil for not trusting him - this is nuts - I'm starting to think like him.
ANYWAY, Soccermom - I think I'm at the point that I think I skipped before - honestly assessing whether I want this M or not. I skipped that when the Bomb dropped and went straight into strategies. At this point, I need to figure out whether I can live like this - letting him have whatever relationship he wants with OW (I'm sure he'll insist that they be "just friends" while I want to insist that they have no contact whatsoever and that I'm present when he tells her, etc.; and that he won't "unsecure" all the extra security around his computer (doesn't he see that it's HIS FAULT that I snoop!!! If there wans't anything to find...) and that he won't go to MC because there's no one who can tell him anything he doesn't know already while I want to go because I don't want the same M we had before, either, and I WANT to work on not only us but ME, too - I need to figure out just how much of me I'm willing to sacrifice in order to have M with him. We don't have any kids - were never able to - which in so many ways makes things so much simpler and in so many ways makes things so much more complicated...
I'm no help, Soccermom, but do know I'm praying for you and that I appreciate the comfort you've given me by sharing your anguish - why does it help to know that others are going through the same thing? Is that mean? I just know it's helped so much being on this board and hearing from people who have lived through this when I didn't think I would - that there was no way a person could keep existing through this kind of pain - but apparently people do, and so many insist you come out better at the other end. I don't believe them on that yet, but they did tell the truth when they said I wouldn't die from the pain, so I'm keeping my mind open...
You're right bustingonline.....I sometimes feel bad that I get comfort in the fact that other people are going through our same situation. Weird.
Well, I'm not quite as angry as I was when I wrote all of that last night, but I screwed up this morning. After H's phone rang and he looked at who it was and didn't answer and all of that (which was supposed to make me feel GOOD!) this morning I told him maybe we should take seperate cars to the soccer field since we would be there all day. He said that's fine. Then I blew it. I added, "I thought you could take your own car so you could make any calls you needed to or answer when you get calls". Oops. He was pissed. Too bad. I just think to have the guts to say to my face that he's not ready to stop talking to the OW and I just sit there and say, duh, ok is horrific. I'm with you....I don't believe moving on or joining a gym would make him stay. I'm being a little sarcastic of course...I know it takes more than that but that's just what it feels like I'm doing right now. We just got home from being at the soccer field (together) all day and he says he's going to Walmart for Coke. Yeah, right. Don't forget your phone! I wanted to yell as he walked out. I restrained myself. I think he was reading my mind though since right after I thought about saying that, he asked if our D wanted to go with him. He knows better than to call her if either girls were in the car with him. He can certainly read all of the lovely text messages she sent, but can't call her himself. I'm so torn. I gave him a kiss today and he accepted that just fine. I'm anxious to go to the MC Wednesday so he can kick H in the butt and tell him to sh** or get off the pot!
I don't believe them on that yet... I don't believe moving on or joining a gym would make him stay...
Like you said, it's not that simple. Neither is anyone presenting it just that simplistically, don't think. And I don't think anyone here is misrepresenting themselves either so as to give you any reason to doubt them as they relate their experiences. Gee I wish you'd give it a 100% try. But that's up to you. I can tell you I wish I had known about this stuff from day one.
There have been some posts I've read from people posting stuff they were going through, the same stuff just like you two are. Others here then post stuff like I'm writing, urging them to try. Then you read their thread a bit further, and finally out of sheer desperation it looks like, they start putting these things into practice, and you read further and they're seeing results they didn't see before. They start having, "Aha!" moments. What you're doing now is resulting in what you're getting now. Why keep doing the same things that don't get anywhere and just give you heart ache?
Bustingonline and Soccermom, you can scoff at these methods, even though DB is what this site is about, but I can tell you it's been working for me. My pain is a lot less than it used to be, though I still have moments, but they're truly limited to just moments. My WAW's not back, but she's thinking of me a lot and wants to see me regularly and misses me, though she's not ready to come back. We don't fight. We don't argue. We have a good time when we're together. That's a far, far cry from where we used to be. And though we don't know how my little love story ends, so far, it's pretty much textbook. If it stays on track, sooner or later her new relationship will probably fizzle, odds are, and she'll be disappointed in what she did, and I'll be looking real good then in that day, and if I'm still interested I can work on things with her, and if I'm not interested, I can tell her it's too late. And if it doesn't work out that way, I hope to be in another relationship I like even better, someday.
I can also tell you that from the sounds of it, you guys are going to give yourself lots of anguish and anger and agita in the months to come. You're trying to analyze what's going in your spouse's head and their reasons for doing this or that, you're venting in front of them, saying things that irritate the situation, drawing your lines in the sand and so on. You think acting on your feelings is going to resolve things for you, but it won't. At worse, you'll end up burning bridges and that's not going to make you any happier than you are now. At best, what you're doing is going to keep your situations just where they are.
why would that piss him off
Who knows? It doesn't matter. Don't try to read minds. Thoughts and reasons can be anything, and chances are, you'll not figure it out. Even if you do, they can change their thoughts and reasons in the next second, and sometimes they don't even know why they're saying or doing something. So if you try to read minds, it will be a never ending series for you of analyzing every action, every word, every look on their face. What's more important to deal with are actual events and outcomes.
I know it takes more than that but that's just what it feels like I'm doing right now
Basing what you do on intelligent, purposeful thought is much better than basing it on feelings. Feelings are erratic, and change. Very often people do things based on feelings and regret it later. Your H was acting on his feelings, and look at the mess that made.
doesn't he see that it's HIS FAULT that I snoop!!!
That would be the same logic as him blaming you for making him cheat. Own the responsibility for your own actions, whether you decide to snoop or not.
I'm anxious to go to the MC Wednesday so he can kick H in the butt and tell him to sh** or get off the pot!
Whoa!! Are you going to a MC or a WWF meet?
Why should H listen to what the MC says if H wants to do what he wants to do?
Where have you been all my life. I love reading what you have to say. It all makes so much sense. Not easy, just practical. I love how you say it in such a nice way. It's not the "That was such a dumb thing to do!" It's like you're the epitomy of how to talk to our S's if we get emotional. you seem to be in emotional control. I've snooped only once in the last 24 hours and that is huge progress.
My goals for the rest of the day: 1. Exercise 2. Hang a shelf (requires borrowing a drill/electric screwdriver) 3. Going out to dinner w/ F's 4. Visiting an old F 5. Prepare my Sunday school lesson
That should keep me busy ~ and away from H's privacy.
Soccermom, keep the faith. Just take it moment by moment and relax. It's going to work itself out the way it should, and when you realize how much control you have over the sitch, then you'll calm down and be able to choose what's best for you. He did what he did and he probably didn't even think about you at all. My H told me that he didn't even think about me at all. You have to realize that WAS's are trying to cover their own pain and can't really look at the LBS with any sort of emotion because then they might not be able to justify their own behavior.
Sorry for the ramble. Enjoy your weekend. The work week will be here before you can blink. SNL333
NYSurvivor, I'm thinking getting H in the ring might do me some good! (referring to your WWF comment)
I know what you are saying.....how can SO many people be wrong if they say this or that worked for them! I'm an intelligent woman and WANT so much to believe these methods will work. I guess I still have this fear that it's for nothing. I told myself a long time ago that I was keeping my distance throughout our marriage so that when he did leave me eventually (which I always believed he'd do) I wouldn't be so devastated since I was PLANNING for it. Stupid, stupid stupid. I know now that wasn't quite the right attitude. I'm working to change the self esteem issue. I really am. I'm just having such a hard time with him telling me he won't give up the OW just yet. You know, we were really doing well I thought up until that night I asked him if he's talked to OW and he said no, then changed his answer to yes, 2 times. I hadn't brought it up in quite some time and things seemed to be going well. I think I thought I needed a "progression check" to see if we were both on the same page. Obviously not. That's what I had feared. I called what he was doing with me "pretending" and that made him mad. H said, it's not pretending and that it came naturally. OK, I was harsh last night. I was upset. Feeling alone again. I do thank you for your words of encouragement. I don't seem to get them from anyone else so I thank you from the bottom of my heart. I promise, I'm trying!! Today is a new day. Not looking back, only forward.
Great! I was told that self esteem, self love and self worth have all one thing in common. The word "self", and that means these are qualities you give to yourself. Hope that helps.
I'm just having such a hard time with him telling me he won't give up the OW just yet... I asked him if he's talked to OW and he said no, then changed his answer to yes, 2 times.
OK. He's going to do what he's going to do. Accept that. Here's where having NO expectations and starting to detach come in useful to help you handle the situation. When you have zero expectations, he can't disappoint you. It won't matter if he changes the answers you expect to hear, because you won't expect anything. AND if something good happens, you can only be delighted.
Also, you're going to back off. No pressure on him, no demands. You want to become his ally, not his adversary. That brings his guard down, you see. In time, he won't be defensive around you, if he's been acting defensive.
and things seemed to be going well.
Things are not always as they appear. And sometimes things may look bad, but they're not.
I think I thought I needed a "progression check" to see if we were both on the same page. Obviously not.
Expectations again.
I called what he was doing with me "pretending" and that made him mad.
OK. Don't say that to him anymore, ha ha ha. But you can tell us how you really feel.
I do thank you for your words of encouragement.
Believe it or not, it's by writing my posts and the same thoughts and thinking on other's situations actually helps me focus on answers to my own. I get reminded of points I'm overlooking and it keeps me well fed on this stuff. I need it too, you know.
I promise, I'm trying!! Today is a new day. Not looking back, only forward.
Good attitude. You're on your way if you keep that up. They say, "no 'trying'... Do it!" Hope you do, but of course, I have no expectations.
Soccermom - how ya doing today? I'm feeling soooo vulnerable. SO confused. A big part of my problem is that a major thing H expressed dissatisfaction with in our M is that I don't talk to him enough, or discuss serious issues with him openly - and exactly WHAT am I NOT supposed to be doing right now??? The "180" for that would be in direct conflict with the "no R talk". I don't know what to do. I'm working on getting through March without talking about R, and if he moves out by then like he said he would, then it will just happen.
Well - headed off to work out - yes, I know it's late, but it's part of my GAL and I didn't yesterday, and I know I'm not going to sleep any time soon, so might as well get one workout in this weekend for my own self-respect. Blessings to you all -
Confused....just posted here but it didn't show up. One more time.....I'm copying and pasting what I typed in another area. Sorry to not keep all my stuff in one spot.
Well another new low........got turned down in the bedroom. That's not happened since right after H dropped the bomb in Nov. There's been no small pecks or even a hug since the night he told me he wasn't willing to stop calling the OW. After the morning when I told him he had a message on his phone because I heard it beep and told him to tell the OW to make sure and only leave text messages when it's not possible I'd find out, he started turning his phone completely off when in the house. Well, after the talk the other night, he started leaving it on again. I've never read any of the messages. I only have looked to see if it says "new message" on the front. Last night when I went to bed, it said 1 new message. He spent some time in the bathroom (our closet with a dresser where he keeps his phone is off the bathroom) and I got up before him this morning. Needless to say, after I got in bed last night, he read the message and probably replied since when I got up it didn't say there were any messages. Then, we took one of our D's to a movie and when we came out of the bathroom he was putting his phone back on his belt real quick. I stormed off and he knew I was pissed. OK, so now it's like he's not even trying to hide this crap anymore. Does that mean he IS done here trying with me? Then to be turned down tonight was the clincher. I feel awful. When I started to get up out of bed after the rejection he asked, "where ya going?" I just said I was getting back up for a little bit. I finally had worked up the nerve to see if he wanted to ML by saying, "you can lay closer over here with me if you want to". He didn't say a thing for so long and made no move. Then he said, "to cuddle"? I said forget it, never mind. Then that's when I got up. I just don't know where we are on all of this, and I know it only matters where I AM on all of this, but that's such a hard question. Thanks for listening.......yet again.....
The caveat is on initiating the R talk. In your case, H's initiating the R talk, so it's not your bringing it up. All you want to avoid is anything that falls under the category of "pursuit". You have to be careful not to use the opportunity to let it all out. It's probably more like just listening to H talk about what he felt was missing or went wrong (that's a good thing! Listen and you'll hear what needs fixing) and you simply nodding your head and saying, "yes", "uh huh" A.K.A. validating. So try letting him do all the talking, you do all the validating. Agree even if you disagree. Don't argue. To say "I'm sorry you feel that way" is better than getting into an argument. Later when you're in reconciliation, if that happens, that's when you can roll up your sleeves and really work together on problems. Right now, use the opportunity to make love deposits into his piggy bank.
NY - except that H is NOT initiating R talk at all - that's what he told me when he dropped the Bomb and before I started DBing and used to force him to talk - he hasn't initiated anything! (by the way - just came back from working out - felt good and at least that was 90 minutes that I didn't check his cell phone)
Soccermom - ouch! Not trying to "one up" you here, but imagine how painful it is to initiate ML - when your confidence is shot, while another of his MAJOR complaints is your not initiating ML enough - and then have him not even, how shall I say, reach a satisfying conclusion himself and then fake falling asleep - and then the next morning tell you that remember, he's planning to move out this month. And THEN - ask you to brunch with him - WTF????? How painful was THAT trying to keep from crying on my pancakes? And if the "180" from NOT initiating sex ends up like that, how on EARTH am I supposed to humiliate myself like that again?
Sorry to rant - I'm stressed from trying to ignore this cell phone on the shelf next to me...
