Cultivating Self Love

[midip]

Dear LnL
I think the parenting bit is so hard, not just having no backup but other parent promoting completely opposite values is very confusing for a child. Is it possible to arrange a meeting with your H to discuss the values you want your child to grow up with or would that just be a waste of time? As you are the constant in her life she will learn from you and follow your example and in her own time choose her own set of moral values. You have the strength and all those other lovely qualities to steer her path no matter what confusing signals she is getting from her father. There is bound to be resistance - it is unavoidable even in the most stable environments, and when she is a grown up she will be very grateful for your strength.... in the meantime (I hope this is true) the more confident and happy you are the more she will be.

[Livnlearn]

I think the parenting bit is so hard, not just having no backup but other parent promoting completely opposite values is very confusing for a child. Is it possible to arrange a meeting with your H to discuss the values you want your child to grow up with or would that just be a waste of time?

A complete waste of time, I'm afraid. This is not an assumption, it is based on the experience of D's whole life! Parenting issues were an area where I bashed my head on a brick wall, and which produced friction through the years. I'm only surprised I took so long to see the obvious.

As you are the constant in her life she will learn from you and follow your example and in her own time choose her own set of moral values. You have the strength and all those other lovely qualities to steer her path no matter what confusing signals she is getting from her father. There is bound to be resistance - it is unavoidable even in the most stable environments, and when she is a grown up she will be very grateful for your strength.... in the meantime (I hope this is true) the more confident and happy you are the more she will be.

I will do my best. I know there are things I could be doing better myself, for sure.

Thanks for your visit Midip!

Livnlearn

[Livnlearn]

I also might advise not to invite your H, don't let him detract from your special day.

Well, I sent out a general invite to folks and many cannot make it due to prior arrangments - I might do something else with just a few folk instead, let's see.

I know that when I recently had my 40th that I decided to leave my H out. Including him would have left me concerned about him, what he thought, pleasing him, blah blah blah.

Belated birthday greetings to you, Pamila!

I'm afraid these days I am more concerned about H ringing and wanting to come down to stay or some such. I am wondering how to 'handle' him now. How to refuse him gracefully.

As it was I got nothing from him, no card, no flowers, no nothing and this was my 40th mind you. He said he had no $, what a bunch of crap, the dollar store sells cards for 50 cents for goodness sakes. But all that would have required him thinking about someone besides himself for a change.

Well, H told me he was ordering a video for me from amazon for my birthday. Let's see if he acknowledges it at all. I have come to realise that H is a lot about effect and less about action. Talking about stuff gets him Brownie points, even though he often doesn't follow through.

I hate this in myself, and when I do say I will do something and then don't it weighs on my mind terribly until I do it.

It's your turn. Have a great time and leave him out of the group celebration for now. If he does want to do something for your B'day make it the three of you or the two of you, not anything more than that.

I was thinking that. At most, just the three of us one weekday lunch.

Livnlearn

[Livnlearn]

LnL, I also agree that you shouldn't invite your H, especially because it seems as if you have made up your mind to move on without him.

It is very hard on the one hand, but also freeing on the other. I feel freed of the responsibilities - of carrying the weight of the marriage, for trying to figure him out, and all that - and now the responisibilities are all my own, for my own life (and that of D). I sure have some growing and growing up to do still, but it seems more doable and less stressful on the whole.

Letting go of that hope of reconciliation is hard, isn't it? I thought I had it beat, but I found out this weekend that I have a long way to go.

Good luck with the birthday plans!

Thanks, and thanks for your visit too!

[Livnlearn]

Then he asked if I had a nice weekend. I said, yes, thank you. Then he asked where I went. I told him the general area. I was wondering if he would ask who I went with, but he didn't. I would have just said, someone you don't know.

Why on earth didn't you take this opportunity to just answer "oh, I went on a date with X to Y"????

Because he probably knows through D who I went with and wouldn't consider him a 'rival' in any way.

Yesterday I told D I didn't like what she had done in one of her school books - she had done shoddy work, scribbled in it and torn pages etc. She looked at me and said "I think it's funny!"

My blood turned cold. This is the sort of thing that H thinks is "funny". Whenever I used to call him on some bad or inappropriate behaviour, he used to laugh evasively. You could never pin him down to admitting he had done anything wrong or inappropriate. And I am talking about times when I was deadly serious, NOT laughing matters. It scares me to see that smirk on D's face.

I have a big problem with rudeness from D as well. Any ideas on how to handle it?

I'd be careful about the possibilty of overreacting to D because you are afraid she will turn out like H. She may imitate certain behaviors or phrases from H, but that doesn't mean she's destined to grow up a weird NPD person - so try really hard to separate out what is reacting to HER and what is carrying your baggage with H overinto your R with her. (MY H used to do this a lot with S18 - get mad at him for what he perceived as "bad traits" that bothered him in his R with ME).

This is a very good point Ellie - I am very aware that how I feel at the moment (recent interaction with H, thinking about him, or the situation, or whatever, influences the way I react to D and her bad behaviour. I am trying SOOOO hard to step back and see myself as D's parent, with a job to do, as it were, rather than taking everything she says and does as a personal attack against me.

She is also so sweet sometimes (often). The other day she was singing a song about how lovely her Mum was and stuff like that, making up the words to the song...

As for the disrespectful stuff - I know, it's hard without another adult backing you up, isn't it? I love it when my H interevenes and calls the kids on it if they speak disrespectfully to me. But bear in mind - children in these sitches act up with the parent they feel SAFE with. She probably doesn't feel like she can express her "bad side" to H because she might lose him - so all her pain and fear about the sitch comes out as bad behavior with you.

Loving detachment - I guess that's the key - don't personalize her behavior so much, just set some clear and firm boundaries and then love her to pieces.

Will do!

Ellie

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[Livnlearn]

Thanks all for posting here. It is gratifying to know I am not the only one grappling with dicipline type problems with my D. It is tempting to think one is an inadequate parent at times...

Latest in Livnelearnland -

H has rung me a few times in the past couple of days. His telelphone is not working and he keeps asking me to try ringing him to see if the phone works for incoming calls. It doesn't always. This evening he called, asked to speak to D straight away and then she handed the phone to me. H asked me to call him back. I was just in the process of saying goodbye to someone at the door and said I would ring back in five minutes. H sounded annoyed, and said, can't you just ring me back straight away! (In that commanding tone!) I just said, I will in a bit. I didn't get through. He rang back, and asked if I had tried. Told him I had.

Then he said, just want to warn you about weekend after next, when D is due to come up - I may be going away, so can't have her.

I note that I asked if it was OK to have D here the two weekends that my sis is coming to visit, I did not just inform him. It doesn't occur to H to ask me if it is OK for D not to come up, he informs me.

This is part of the entitlement aspect of H, which he accuses me of all the time. But then I am learning how people with NPD project.

I am also wondering why he keeps ringing me to test his phone. Does he know no one else with a phone apart from his 'ex-wife'?

I have had a busy few days recently and some late nights, and I am tired today. Will be turning in early to catch up on the beauty sleep!

Livnlearn

[Livnlearn]

Hi all

I didn't hear from H all yesterday!

It occured to me to just get a new phone for the land line, one that has caller ID, so I can screen calls more effectivley.

The evening job, the last of a series of three, went well in the end. Lots of stressful moments in the planning of it, but we have come out of the end of it sane, with satisfied customers and my friendship with good friend back on its previous footing. Maybe the falling out will leave a scar of sorts, maybe it will warn us not to take tooooo much for granted, who knows?

D came along with us and behaved well, lots of people saying what a peach she was! We had a very late night and getting her up for school this morning was a challenge.

This morning H calls. Wants me to call back to test his phone for incoming calls. Apologises for continually asking me to do this! I don't get through. H rings back to check. Then starts talking.

He talks about a film he has watched recently, The Celebration. The plot is about an older, successful man throwing a party for his family, and they all turn up and divulge things that involve exposing him and his misdeeds. Basically the children get their revenge on their father.

H tells me he really loved it, it is the ultimate 'revenge on your parents' movie. The fantasy of going back and telling your parents what you REALLY thought of them. Although he spoke calmly and normally, I could hear the rage and hurt in his voice. (Both his parents are dead.)

I felt sadness and compassion for H. I was so stupid to think that his terrible relationship with his Dad was no big deal in the early years of our M. He didn't mention it much. I now realise it was a HUGE deal. Nobody escapes the effects of a terrrible relationship with their parents. The need to feel love and security from them is a fundamental one, and its lack affects you throughout life.

Then he said he wasn't sure whether the DVD he ordered for my birthday would arrive in time. (They have been ordered but apparently not yet dispatched.) I said, well, I have wanted to see that film for years, a few more days' delay won't matter. And H said, but it would be nice to get it to you in time for your birthday!

Whoooooaaaaaaa???? He has NEVER been THAT worried about getting me presents, let alone presents on time!

Then I asked him about weekend after next. Remember he warned/informed me that he probably would be going away and he wouldn't be able to take D? I asked if I could count on my having D and make plans accordingly. Now look and see what he says -

I thought I told you already!

I said, well you said 'probably', so I am only confirming that she is with me so I can plan.

He said, I am not sure yet, but I guess if I don't go away you can still have her.....

He told me he was going away to stay with friends not that far away and they would be going on long walks, so not suitable for D who wouldn't enjoy it. Not exactly an important reason, IMO. I just try and plan my life around the weekends that I have D or not, and sometimes have to forgo things when they don't work out. But I don't put H on permanenet standby just in case my plans change. So I am going to have to be firmer with H about some advance planning. I am glad it was HE who said that if he didn't go away after all, D would still be with me.

I might have to postpone my "lunch at restaurant with friends" till the following week, and would want D to be there, as it is families, not just adults.

Then I mentioned that D and I were going to buy her a new bike tomorrow, and I wasn't sure how much it would cost. Big silence from H and then a sigh. He said he had NO money this month, he had a big tax bill to pay... I said, I didn't ask you for money. Not yet!

In our SA, any extraordinary expense over a certain amount we go halves on, over and above what he pays as monthly child support. It may very well come under that amount.

All in all, our interaction was fine. I am feeling more detached, not in thrall to constant worry about what H might say or how I will reply.

Although I am reading a lot of sites and BBs about NPD, I am also reading about how not to dehumanise. I feel both more detached and more compassionate, and more calm. I am not looking for any particular RESULT, except inner peace and reserves of strength to make the right (or at least, wiser) choices in my future.

Livnlearn

[psluke]

Hi LNL,

Just wanted you to know I think you are doing some great work and I am getting a lot for myself out of reading your thread.

Hope you have a great weekend!

[BeingMe]

Hoo boy, LNL! I think I've said this before .... just when you think you've let go, they try and reel you in. I have to keep reminding myself to leave that rope on the ground. DO NOT pick it up, STEP AWAY from the rope.

As to the child sharing (is that an appropriate word?) - one of you has to be the responsible one, no matter how frustrating it is to be the one who is. One day, your H will know on some level what he has lost, while you have moved on with your life. He seems to still be floundering around, trying to find his footing.

My separation is fast approaching, and my H and I are still in the same bed. He says he likes to cuddle with me. I want to scream sometimes that this is one of the things he is giving up, but I don't. I just shrug and say to myself that I may as well enjoy the moments while I have them and then move on when it's time.

Have an awesome weekend!

[Livnlearn]

Hi all

One of these days I want to post at more length about Narcissistic Personality Disorder, but that's for another day, when I have the time and I have organised my thoughts better.

For anyone interested in the subject, here's a link to the work and writings of Sam Vaknin.

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal1.html

One of the things I have read is that someone with NPD is not able to change and never really does so. Their whole being is invested in the adoption of the dynamic. All the sites I have read have advised NOT to stay involved, to not have contact etc. Well, I have a child here, so no contact is not really an option. But I think I am detaching more.

So anyway, this morning D and I went to buy her a new bike, and I got sucked into buying a very snazzy mountain bike, that is far better equipped than even mine (and it is my only means of transport and child carrying!) is far smarter and cost rather more than I intended spending! But D loves it, she even kissed it!

H rang to talk to her and to hear all about her new bike. Then he talked to me. He asked what it cost, and then said, well, I can't pay my half this month, but I will give it to you probably next month. Hey guys, I didn't ask for a thing, let's see if the money materializes!

Then he inquired what I was doing tomorrow, and I mentioned doing stuff with friends, and he said, have a nice time.

I was pleasant throughout, but I didn't enquire about him or what he was up to at all.

Livnlearn