quote: ----------- You mentioned a number of times that flags were waving for you when reading about my stich, anything that might shed a little light on my dark times? Any insights would be most welcome. -----------
There are a lot of things that throw up my 'flags', key words, behaviors, any number of things. Abstraction of systems is my specialty in the real world. It translates well to relationships (except for my own, of course).
You have said a number of things, that while of concern, don't make a whole picture yet.
quote: --------- then she gave me the "I love you but not in love with you". ---------
That is a flag because it is classic affair script.
The explicit novels, is no big deal, but the novels and no sex is a flag of sorts.
Then you mentioned the timing of the IUD insertion with the arrival of lowered desire. Could be medical, maybe not. Again, a flag, but not substantial enough to complete a picture.
That is why I suggested that you "have a look around". I am not sure that anything is going on in your marriage besides the fact that you two have issues with each other. I do think it worthwhile to have a look for a potential outside emotional involvement of some sort. I will caution you, that if you do have a look, keep your suspicions to yourself.
Regardless of that, you need to continue working on your end of the relationship. The reason I mentioned the posts between csw and me, is because there is some good non-affair information for handling your marital difficulty there. If it turns out that there is some sort of involvement with your wife, then you already have additional resources under your belt.
I would also ask her, again, to read SSM. It might help if you told her that both of you are described in the book, but don't explain how or why, let her read it to find out.
Make no mention of divorce to your wife. Do NOT make threats. The word 'divorce' is rough on a marital relationship anytime it is used within context of 'your marriage'. You, being a man of steel, are fully ready and willing to take your contribution to the condition of your marriage, and fix it, You own up to it, and do something about it.
"Wife, I now understand that I have contributed to the condition of our marriage. I am ready and willing to do whatever it takes to fix it"
No to be facetious, but you do know that sex is NOT the only problem in your marriage, don't you? Your marriage is broken, and in need of repair. your wife probably already knows this, but I doubt she understands how affected by it, you are. Do you know what her issues are with you? The real ones?
Hint, it probably does NOT involve more housework on your part.
Keep working on you, ConfuseMe. That is the first place to start.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I agree with NOP. Work on yourself, do some fact finding when you can, and try to keep the good times rolling without getting deep into relationship talks at this point.
I delayed our progress by probably 2 months by getting bad advice from books published by PhDs.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Here is a couple of links that describe the technique, the one I use is a little different but very close to the same idea. Its handy because you can do it almost anywhere and only takes five minutes to calm your toughts. Let me know what you think. I gotta admit I was secptical at first but it truly does work.
Thanks for sharing. I was feeling the same way but rather unsure on how to approach things. Like you said I think its best to keep my eyes open as things do seem to be pointing that way.
A question for you if I may, can you post the link to the tread that you were mentioning between yourself and csw? I cant seem to find it.
I have ordered a book on this subject. I gather from what I have read on the links you provided that the tapping is a pleasant diversionary tactic. Is this correct?
Cinema-who is willing to tap into feeling better anytime.
I don't mind the sun sometime
The images it shows
I can taste you on my lips
And smell you in my clothes
Cinnamon and Sugar
And softly spoken lies
You never know just how you look
Through someone elses eyes
BHS-"Pepper"
You are correct. From what I have gathered on the subject and experinced it is a way to control your mind and to release endophins into your system allowing you to calm your mind and reduce the stress / anxiety from your system. Its is an effective short term "treatment". I sometimes find it rather embarrasing doing it in public tho . Let me know what you think and how it goes.
-------------- I would also ask her, again, to read SSM. It might help if you told her that both of you are described in the book, but don't explain how or why, let her read it to find out. -------------- Im a little afraid to follow through on this one. I think in the past I have been persuing too much on the intimacy issue and that seems to have pushed her away even more. So im concerned that if I ask her to read this she may throw out the big D.
------------- No to be facetious, but you do know that sex is NOT the only problem in your marriage, don't you? Your marriage is broken, and in need of repair. your wife probably already knows this, but I doubt she understands how affected by it, you are. Do you know what her issues are with you? The real ones? ---------------
This is where my greates difficulties lie. I have asked numerous times "what she wants from our R" and had many vauge and contradictory answers. Items like "I want to be with an ethical and cool guy", "I want to feel like im in control of my life" , and in the same sentence, "I want to feel taken care of". Im beginning to think that W doesnt really know what she wants?!Most of these talks dont end well, I try to understand what she is saying and feeling and ask for more details, specifics etc and that really sets her off. the line of "I shouldnt have to tell you what to do, or what I need" pops up numerous times.
----------- Keep working on you, ConfuseMe. That is the first place to start. -----------
That seems to be the only thing I can do right these days, but even that seems to bother W. I have been spending more and more time working out and going to Martial Arts class, but that seems to be bothering W. Lately, on Friday nites, I have been going over to a friends house to play cards (used to do that before we met), before I go, or plan on going, I ask her if "we have any plans" or "if there is anything she wants to do" that nite, the usual asnswer is no so I ask if it is ok if I go. The usual answer is sure but I almost wonder if there really is something she wants to do togeather. I dont know, I guess all I can do is continue to ask.
Thanks for the input, I have started "keeping my eyes open" but havent "seen" anything concrete yet.
You said: "I have asked numerous times "what she wants from our R" and had many vauge and contradictory answers. Items like "I want to be with an ethical and cool guy", "I want to feel like im in control of my life" , and in the same sentence, "I want to feel taken care of". Im beginning to think that W doesnt really know what she wants?!"
You know...the questions you asked her are tough to answer. What you might want to consider doing is asking her to sit down a quantify what her perception of an ethical/cool guy is. Ask her to write down things that would make her feel she's in control of her life....and to be specific about it, if she' puts something on there like "feel cared for" that's too vague, ask her what specifically you could do that would make her feel cared for.
See where I'm going with this? You've got to start pushing her for specifics in her answers and not accepting the vague. I have been just as guilty at giving answers like hers and when asked to specifically state for example, what my H could to to make me feel loved (outside of sex) it wasn't easy for me to answer. I really had to think about it. I many ways doing this allowed me to get in better touch with myself, who I am, and what really does make ME happy.
I hear ya. I guess my apprehension of doing this is that in the past she took things the wrong way and told me that she felt pressured by the questions. I know I need to ask her the questions again but am a little unsure on how to open up the topic again. In the past when I have asked for more specific responses on what her needs are and / or what she is looking for she got angry and defensive to the point on one conversation of saying "Be a Man, figure it out".
I think I need to give her a little time (I hope this is the right move) to allow her to think on what we have discussed in the past. I am also trying to avoid R talks right now as they always seem to end poorly. I think I may have to leave this one for a week and just try to focus on having fun with my wife (no physical contact invloved). I think I need to focus on making her feel comfortable with me so that she will feel able to open up when I ask those questions again.
I hope Im making the right decesion..
I need to change my handle to Master of Mistakes..
. Let me know what you think and how it goes.