Lillie-- I am deeply sorry for my offense. One would think that growing up being called a "sissy" would make one sensitive to things like that. I always mean it jest but can see how it is offensive. I'm truly sorry!! I appreciate each and everyone of you here and never want to insult you!!!
As for your question, I'm not sure I have much in the way of advice. It took my wife actually saying the word D and taking off her rings, to make it sink in that she wouldn't stay in an R like this. Honestly, she never even talked about walking away from it...at least not to me. Like I said in my post earlier today to JJ, guys are not necessarily the best listeners--we intercept, interpret and perceive things so much differently than they are meant. Honestly, I consider myself pretty intuitive and I THOUGHT I was a good listener and could understand women (again, thanks to the sisters). I mean, I am good at reading a woman's body language and know if she's having a bad day...I could sense it from my wife before she walked in the door. BUT, when she talked to me about my lack of response to her...what did I hear, CRITICISM, not cries for help! I intercepted her cries for help but interpreted and perceived the words she was saying as being critical of who I was. So, then, I fought back in a way that was NOT understanding or loving.
Well, I've made this all about me again--haven't I? Anyway, In all my management training and facilitator training, we have units on active "listening" and "feedback." Maybe, that is something you should try. Don't just put the words out there and react to his reaction. Instead, try to figure out what he heard...get the feedback on what your words meant to him. Then, re-work what you say until he gets your message the way you intended it.
Boy, I'm good at the advice aren't I? Too bad, I'm not so good at applying it in my own situation!!! Hope this helps Lillie.
Coming from a woman and a mother...I can see why you are upset about the performance. To me and I am an outsider but that seems a little selfish. Kid's like to look out and see their parents watching.
Don't appologize for making threads about you. Because yes you did cause conflict in the marriage. But you know what it takes two people to make conflict. So why yes you have faults, so does she. I have faults in my marriage to. Give yourself credit for working on it.
She is angry and hurt and it may take time. But try this, couldn't hurt. Maybe one day this weekend run her some bath water and encourage her to relax and take a break and you will do things around the house that need to be done. Tell her just relax. That would soften me up, lol. Just little sweet gestures to kind of break the ice.
All right, I'll dive in along with KEBall and Mr. Fixit. I am not attempting to hijack, but I will give a few facts so I can join in the fray. I am an LDH, with a near WAW. Trouble is, I haven't been such a good provider, as a slef employed artist blacksmith, and we don't have kids for her to feel guilty about. I thought I had shown her how much I love her and how much I appreciate her, but clearly, my attempts weren't meeting the mark. After W dropped the bomb, I started to think about why I am LD, and whay I could do about it. Some of the SD prob is mental, probably the majority of it. I was abused, always had low self esteem, and now after this thread, I will have my testosterone checked. I know I am not gay, and W has never said anything about that. She would be ready to go a couple of times a day. I could go a couple times a week. But then once she began to withdraw, we could go for two weeks without ML. When W would initiate, it would always be late at night, as we were drifting of to sleep. When she finally said something about my SD, I asked why she never initiated at other times, like in the morning noon or showering, etc. We continued with more of same while her resentment and pain grew. I had no idea of how painful this was to her. We never sought help. And now, she wants nothing to do with ML, and says she is ready to run. She said that in MC, and again over the weekend. I took the initiative to move into the spare room. At first this seemed like a good idea, but after reading this thread, I now wonder. I have refrained from trying it initiate after the first couple of tries, for fear of pursuit, but now I see that this is really more of same, and perhaps my 180 would be to keep trying to initiate. When I came home with the SSM book, she looked at it and me with derision. I fear that it is too late, but after reading this thread and the one prior, (so much for getting work done today ) I see a glimmer of hope. I will try to exude confidence, and will let my desire show. I wish I could get my W to read these threads, but she is pretty clamped down right now. I will read them again and again, and when it all sinks in , I will act. In the meantime, do I avoid pursuit and give her the space she is asking for, or do i follow these pointers and make advances?
I appreciate all of the insight from the HDW's here. My glimmer of hope is that you all were willing to work things out. W sez that only couples with kids bother to work things out. I think that a 12 year relationship is worth working on, kids or not. My glimmer of hope at home is the fact that she sez she doesn't know what she wants. Thanks for the space in your thread KEBall, you are getting a lot of help over here.
My bf's ex was a WAW. He says she never gave him a clue, just said one day "I want a divorce." That was six years ago and he's still furious. He keeps his anger at a fever pitch (IMHO) so he doesn't have to face the fact that NO ONE walks away from a 25 year marriage for no reason. I don't think he can face his part in it. He'll say stuff like "Well, I know I'm not perfect," but I think he thinks it would kill him to feel the depth of his part of the responsibility for the dissolution of that marriage.
When I say I'm unhappy about something, he also takes it to mean HE'S wrong and sees it as criticism. Sometimes I don't think he has a speck of compassion or empathy in his body. Actually what I think it is is that he's in so much internal pain, that he can't bear to try to empathasize with mine or it activates his.
Is there some way she could have phrased her cries for help so that you wouldn't have heard them as criticism?
Re the "I've made it all about me" comment. I want to know your point of view. I want to know what it's like for YOU. I think we're on a bit of a hair-trigger on this board about hijacking (okay, so I'm one of the worst hijackers). But when I post, I want to know what it was like for YOU and how YOU handled it. I want advice, but I like the details of how that advice worked out in your life. I'm very interested in your thoughts.
csw--
Welcome to the thread! It's not MY thread per se...that's why I changed the name. This is an important place for all of us to be. It allows us the ability to look at ourselves and to ask the questions--and answer the questions--that go along with it.
As you can see from the posts here, there is SO much sharing back and forth. I'm sometimes good at the advice but not so great at implementing. In fact, I have not been good about expressing my desire--in an outright way since the first couple of crash-and-burns. Instead, I feel I've resorted to my old passive approach. I make sure that each night in bed...I go to sleep touching her in SOME way, sometimes it's my hand on her back or thigh, sometimes it's butt-to-butt sometimes--when she's not so receptive, it's trailing my hand just to her side of the bed so it barely touches her elbow. I don't know if she perceives this as anything but to me, it is my slow way of channeling my love and prayers to her body in the hopes that it will penetrate her heart.
Sorry guys...I had to edit the post. I can't go there for now--it's still too painful. I hope you understand. If you already read what I wrote and have questions, please feel free to email me at kb1990@aggienetwork.com. K
First of all, I'm so sorry that you ever went through any type of abuse...for that I would love to give you a warm motherly hug...the way I put my 18 mo old son to bed every night which makes him feel loved, warm, and safe.
Second...have you talked about this with your W? Does she know about this abuse? I noticed you mentioned you talked about it in your C session, which is great. You do definitely need to deal with these ghosts. A saying I came up with after I left my 1st very abusive H was "if you don't deal with your past, your past controls your future." That past could have quite a bit to do with your R w/your W currently.
If you haven't already discussed this with her as difficult as it may be I think you really should. If she's not aware, this could be a key to help her understand some things from your past as a couple and help her to provide some empathy.
Saw one of your other threads somewhere else today. Welcome.
KEB,
I know that you are wearing your heart on your sleeve right now in your R but trust us, things can't get better unless you put yourself out there. In this case, "acting as if" is more than acting as if everything is hunky dory but rather "acting as if" your displays of desire are ok even in the face of W's indifference.
I'm sorry that W is opting out of the children's performance. It is her loss. I would definately tell her that you are disappointed that she won't be there. Don't belabor it but say something. Good luck.
Hey GEL-- Thanks for the hug. I guess I didn't edit my post quickly enough. I sent it and then walked away...then decided it's too personal for now.
I have talked with my wife. In fact, it came up several weeks ago before our first session with this great C. I didn't go into detail about it...in fact, I left some out...it's TOO painful a memory to discuss, even with her, right now. But, it was the W who first mentioned it to the C in our first session.
I'm not sure she completely understands how deeply it goes. At some point, when I feel strong enough, I will tell her everything.
I can certainly understand how painful it is. If your W brought this up, this is obviously an important issue for her too.
This truly may explain alot of things going on in your M. We often unintentionally push the things we love the most away out of self defense. This is something my H has done to me....he was pushing me away before I could hurt him. I'm wondering now if perhaps you may not have subconciously been doing the same thing.
KEB, I didn't see your post before you edited it, and it really sucks that you feel this pain too. I don't need to know specifics, but I know how deep the pain goes. I told my W about the abuse a long time a go. She put it on a shelf and forgot about it. I buried it deeply again. I brought it up again after the bomb, and she admitted forgetting. I buried the pain deeply, but it resurfaced as insecurity, self doubt, self deprecation, self pity, and low self esteem. I suppose all that combined makes me pretty self centered Unfortunately, now that W has heard about my abuse, it seems like she sees me as damaged goods. There are no problems between us that are insurmountable, in my view, but the LD to her has been a nightmare of proprtions that are only now becoming clear. Bringing the SA to light seems to have cemented in her mind that things are beyond hope. To me the fact that we have talked about it brings me hope, as she is the first person I told. I know I will be a better person after the smoke clears, but I don't really care about that if she isn't around. Better but more lonely doesn't seem better at all.
Kid's like to look out and see their parents watching. 
