Is this really so insurmountable??

[heatherg]

Well, I still think separation is what would be best for our marriage. He needs some serious alone time to think about his own failings instead of focusing on the affair 24/7. Before I went outside of our marriage, when we argued/talked he would always say he didn't have any problems with me. But now, every day is a reminder of what I did because of the consequences he's put into action.
But with that being said, I found when it was time to go, I absolutely could not leave my children half the time, nor could I take them away from their father. I am learning that once I had children, my marriage became about more than just MY happiness. It's not been an easy realization. It's not seemed fair either. For 12 years I have been with him, waiting to be first on his priority list. Now I just have to accept that will not happen. If it hasn't happened by now, it sure won't happen after what I did. I feel like we have a good family life and to leave would be putting my happiness above my childrens'. How do you live with that?!
We have made a lot of progress in the last few days though. Maybe he has learned some things about himself as well but is not ready to admit it. I guess I just don't understand, probably b/c I've never been in his shoes, but with so much at stake, why play games now? If he still loves me, he should tell me. If he doesn't want me to go, he should tell me. If he's sorry about anything he's done, he should tell me. But there is nothing. I could count on one hand the number of times my husband has told me he was sorry about something he said or did to me over the course of our relationship. Apparently he thinks living with someone who drinks like he does is a piece of cake...I mean afterall, it's only a problem b/c I perceive it as one. I'm just one of those selfish people that will never be happy, can't put anyone ahead of myself, ever. That's what he thinks. And I sit here, thinking, for the last 12 years I've been doing my best to deal with habits that go against everything in me, but I'm selfish??
The pornography is the same, he says it's only a problem b/c I perceive it as one. It's a guy thing, all guys do it. That's his point of view.
The thing that finally got me toward the end I think is that he will never acknowledge my feelings. I'm just being selfish. I felt so unnecessary, he was so indifferent toward me, always telling me to just do what I need to do and leave him alone. When I tried to talk to him, our talks are otherwise known as "**itch sessions" in his lingo, he will continue watching tv, walk away, tell me he doesn't want to talk about it. If I ask when would be a better time, he will tell me never. Now I know that an affair is wrong, but I honestly in my heart do not know if I agree that there is never an excuse.....yeah, I definitely could have just left and that would definitely be the high road when it comes to marriage. But what about my kids??? Would leaving be the high road for them??

[heatherg]

The past few days have been really good. That is great news. He's acting like he wants to try-making small talk and small affectionate gestures. That is definitely progress. You are all so determined....I've read through some of your threads and you should all be so proud of yourself for hanging in there. I posted yesterday hoping that what I was saying wouldn't offend anyone-I realize that many of you are on the other side of the fence-you have been cheated on. I can't imagine what it feels like to be on that side of the fence, but please keep an open mind when you read my thread and remember that every situation is so very different. I do know that having an affair is wrong-but consider this: if your partner would have told you they were considering an affair before they actually acted on it, what would you have done? It seems you would want to know why, would seek to better understand. Inside, we all want to be good partners. My H didn't do that. I asked for more time together, explaining that I truly felt we were drifting apart. I told him I could feel bad things on the horizon. When you drift apart, bad things can happen. Those were my exact words. At that point, I was not engaged in any wrongdoing, but I could tell that I was too flattered by the attention of other men. We have problems in our marriage that (presumably) he can do nothing about, i.e. his alcohol problem. But spending time together is a small easy request. His mother offered to babysit once a month so we could go to dinner and a movie. We tried it once and he wouldn't go again. I cannot explain the way this all made me feel. Insignificant. A mother and nothing more. I am only 30!
Please do not judge me too harshly. I have a lot of anger and frustration and I feel that I all but told my H that something was coming although I didn't know myself what that something was. Remorse is something that is inside as well, but it's not nearly as forthcoming as the anger. I think my H has a hard time with that. He wants to see that I am sorry, but I do not know how to express being sorry to someone who is being cruel and hateful, doing things he has no business doing like trying to keep me away from my children. That's war! How do you be sorry when all that stuff is going on? But things have gotten much better. It is still hard if I let myself think about all the things that have transpired and his absolute denial that any of this has been a result of his behavior. But I try not to think so much about that.

[heatherg]

Den, I noticed in some of the things you've written on other threads that you also used pornography. So you must not have always thought it was a deal breaker. Why did you use it? Is it true that it's usually just a "guy thing" unless there are indications of an addiction? Aside from threatening to leave you, what else could your wife have done to make you realize that this was hurtful behavior on your part?

[Den]

I did a lot of the things your husband did. It nearly cost me my marriage in a manner similar to yours... wife's brief emotional affair, seperation, significant effort on my part to convince her that alcohol, porn, etc were in the past.

I never had addiction to either. Though it was just typical guy stuff. I didn't realise how much this hurt her.

Den

[heatherg]

It has been a while since I've posted. It seems so daunting to try to convey everything in words, so I suppose I gave up for a little while. Plus I had the flu for 10 days-ugh! Better now though. It was difficult to be sick b/c I always need TLC when I am sick, and H was giving none. He was great with the kids once he realized how sick I was though. Got them up, dressed and to daycare by himself.
Most big aspects of our M are the same-I'm still in the guest room, he still doesn't wear his ring, he still won't ride in my vehicle and he still won't kiss me.
But as many of you know, when you have kids, it is easier to live without the above things than one might think because there are so many other things to think about and take care of. But when I sit quietly and think about my M, I know these things are not good.
See, you all talk about detaching as though it's a good thing and I think it can be a very good thing because inside, you really do still feel and you're just acting "as if". But I think my husband really did detach, long before I had my....I don't even know what to call it. "Affair" seems to blow it out of the water a bit. Any recommendations??
Anyway, we struggled for so long with the alcohol thing that he said he "shut off, because I hated him for so long". I did not hate him, I hated (and still do hate) his behavior. I really don't think he thinks I'm entitled to hate it as much as I do. That infuriates me. Anyway, we rarely discuss anything outside of our kids. If I do push a conversation about "us", I end up not knowing how much of what he says is said out of hurt/anger/defense and how much of it is true. B/c if I just take what he says at face value, he told me a long time ago that he is not interested in fixing the marriage. He only wants to be a family. See, it seems he has everything just the way he wants it actually. He has his children every day, we go out to dinner, to the toy store, whatever as a family. We have sex (no kissing!). He drinks on his days, has to answer to no one because he owes me nothing.
I think that in all honesty, over the years, I've lost a great deal of respect for H. If I met him today, I wouldn't give him the time of day. But I feel so torn because regardless of how I feel, I just don't see how I can take our family away from our kids and throw them into the world of divorce just to suit my needs. I'm just lonely and feel like I'm living my life alone. I get so frustrated because I am only 30 and I want to feel something again....
Anyway, I am taking another shot at posting. I appreciate all of your thoughts, you all seem to be going through similar things.

[heatherg]

So far, I've read Divorce Remedy and now I'm reading the Five Love Languages. All of what I've read makes sense, I guess I just feel a little different from most on this site, first of all because I am the one that did the betraying, I am not the betrayed. Secondly, I've come to the realization after reading my words and trying to think things through that although I want my marriage to work, I'm not sure I want to be with H. It's like I WANT to want to be with him, but I'm not sure I do. I need him to want to try too. That would help revive my feelings I think. I read and think, but when it comes down to it, I can't seem to take any real action. Everyone tells me I deserve better than how he's treated me, both before and after my betrayal. But he tells me I'll never be happy, it will always be something, I blame him for everything that's wrong in my life, I am extremely selfish, that I live in some alternate reality and I'm deluded. That's me in a nutshell as far as he's concerned. To me, that sounds nothing like me. I'm sure that comes as a shocker to everyone that I would not see those negative qualities in myself;) I know that, like everyone, I do things occasionally that might be selfish or whatever, but as a whole I feel that I'm very empathetic and giving. But maybe not to him. I don't know how to change that because I guess I can't make myself want it. My head wants it, my heart doesn't I guess. I'm confused. Can you tell?!

[Dmsw4]

Hey Heather. Have you tried counseling? I didn't see it in your thread anywhere. I know people can move beyond an affair if they both really want it. A counselor was a big help for me alone and with my H. Sometimes just bouncing ideas off of a good counselor is a tremendous help. My C even had days that she was at a free clinic for some of her patients who could not afford, or didn't have insurance to cover. It would be worth the try, if even just for yourself.

[soccermom]

Do you mind me asking you something Heather? I may have just missed it somewhere, but was wondering...if it was you that betrayed the M and it was not physical, what really made you go to this other person and what ultimately helped you decide to let that R go and work on your M? Sorry if I'm being nosy. Just trying to get inside my H's head and find out where his brain is. Hoping he "wakes up" sometime soon and sees what a wonderful woman he's dumping!

[heatherg]

I have been in counseling since right after I told H what I had done. It has been very good for validating my feelings, but H feels like we fight every time I go b/c he says my counselor and anyone else I confide in tells me what I did wasn't so bad. Which isn't necessarily true, no one has told me that. But they have told me that the consequences seem to outweigh the crime a little and that he also needs to step up and take some responsibility for where we are today. And I keep telling everyone that I hope in time, things will repair themselves. They keep telling me that time alone does nothing, it's what you do with that time. And he isn't willing to have any R discussions without being VERY hurtful. And I don't mean just saying mean things-I mean he rolls his eyes at me, walks away from me, laughs at me. And he tells me I don't listen well. But if I took everything he said and took it compeletely to heart, there would be no need for me to hang around b/c he's already told me that he's emotionally shut off and has no real desire to turn it on again. I also don't know if he truly has a drinking problem. If he does, all of the problems in our M could be totally secondary to protecting the thing he has always put ahead of me-his relationship with alcohol. For instance, he has told me I've hated him for years. I have not hated HIM, I have hated his behavior and the fact that he would not stop has made me lose a great deal of respect for him. Once you lost respect for someone, you find yourself able to do or say things that you would not do or say to someone you cared about. So, he says that caused him to shut off emotionally. God forbid he fix the REAL problem!!!
So, I am in counseling. Whether it has done much good, I cannot tell. I am actually in the process of switching counselors b/c I thought I should honor H's opinion that we fight every time I see her. Thought I try with someone else and I haven't had my first appt with her yet. I feel that I have always tried to be a good partner. But I have many negative feelings about H, some that go way back to when we first started dating when I was 17. I will post a little about our history later.

[heatherg]

My betrayal was physical. I kissed another man. A man I had zero interest in, but that pursued me with lavish compliments, which is what I desperately needed from H. It was not difficult to end things with this person, I barely knew him and was not remotely attracted to him. Our brief "relationship" had a physical facade, but what he really provided to me was emotional.
I had been trying to talk to H about our marriage for a long time before this incident happened. Our problems go sort of deep and way back. H has been a big drinker since I met him, but I've "normalized" this behavior while at the same time hating it with an intense passion. Discussions about his drinking have been off limits forever. He has gotten better over the years-he used to drink 6 nights a week, now he drinks 2. Seriously drinks. He may have up to six beers on a "non drinking" night, but he drinks 14 on Mondays and Fridays which are his nights to get drunk.
I also used to find a lot of evidence of pornography sites, etc. on the computer which I found extremely offensive b/c even after two kids I am thin, in shape and take care of myself. I suppose with OM I was also receiving validation that I could be to someone else whatever it is that the pornography was to H. I needed that. Also, once we had children H became an almost obsessive father-would never leave kids to do anything with me, not even go to a movie. On the rare occasions we went to a movie, it had to be during their nap time. His mother offered to babysit for us once a month so we could go to dinner and a movie. We went once and he seemed bored with me the entire time and would never go again. His relationship with our son is actually somewhat extreme, I'll post more on that later. Also, H travels in spurts for his job. During the months before my indiscretion, he had been gone for about 7 months, home only on the weekends. He would still drink Friday night, so that night was ruined for me. Sat and Sun were spent doing things with the kids so they could reconnect with Daddy. I was invisible. Quite literally. So anyway, I tried to tell H the things that bothered me and he never validated anything I said. He insists that the things I have problems with are only problems b/c of the way I perceive them. He also says that if it wasn't those things, it would be something else. I'll never be happy. And at this rate, I probably won't.