Hi Andrea - What amazing progress on each of your goals - lady, you rock How did everyone react to your 180, organising the family get together? Part of the process here is to observe results, so that you can do more of what works
Interesting that he is snooping around your PC, and showing surprise at your beach day. Seems like turning up the mystery may re-focus his attention to you?
Slowly... the reaction was good in general... his parents and my h...!!... and about the misterious tool, yes, it works a lot!!
Well, another day to enjoy and work...!!.... nothing special from my h... i still feel annoy bc his money acctitde towards my needs... this is an old reclaim and i had tried many many differents way to chance that vicious circle not winning at all... he still not preocupied about my needs, although i have to accept he pays everything, food, my dentist consult, my day to day... i earn money and i help him paying the school... we had talked about this many many times, but still i am feeling maintained, he makes me feel like that, pledging for money... Tonight we will go to a dinner of his fishing partners... i went to my Sister hme looking for some nice clothes to wear (i am bored of my clothes)... so, lets see how follow and whats time can bring us...!! Andrea
Yesterday at night after a lovely evening with friends, again and maybe bc my desesperation and my confution of double message, i asked him Why he doesnt want to have sex or be intimate with me... that after a lovely night with friends and when, as ussual since the last 2 and a half months, he said goodnight witout a touch, a kiss, and nothing...!!... His answer was the same... I dont desire it... So, this time i reply... "You dont desire at all, o you dont desire me?... and his answered, an answer it seems he desnt want to say, was... I dont desire you... ¿Do you feel we are ok to make or desire making love?... So... he doesnt want to talk in that moment, he said maybe we an talk in a dinner or so, as always, and get sleep after me saying i feel frustrated and alone, and that i prefer to be alone but out of this rejection...!! We are not well is his feeling, but we continue getting out with friends and enjoying time together... We are not well but he invite me to dinner on valentines day.. We are not well but he makes plans with me and with the familly... Now i am the one who feels sad and depresed...!! Now i am the on who is losing patience... I love too much this man and i am so sad bc his rejection...!!
Goodmorning everyone out there.. and i hope all of you feel great with yourself even that can be a great work..!! So, after that answer from my h about sex issue i look for oriented words from my c by mail... so, i want to share with all you hs response... maybe can be usefull for someone and maybe you can add your comments... i will try to translate it from spanigh to englsh in the best way i can
Quote: The economic dependence issue is an important point bc, in one part you feel as no care from him to your needs, and by the other side, i think you blame yourself that you have to be pledging for money and for economic help to him.. You need to find a solution in a near future bc always the economic problems increase the problems proportion in the relation. I wish you can find something About the sexual issue, i think there are more reasons to be preocupiied. The sexual desmotivation of him is something the reflect a mayr conflict than the simple depression or his profesional situation. It is possible that que previous crisis in M not resolved yet, had minated his interes for satisfactory sex, but also can be that the great effort you had done for not having confrontations or problems had guided you to "despicture" a little as a woman for him. Maybe that good moments you both share laughs or pleasent situations do not represent erotic nature or ingredient for him and he accept them more as friendly situation It is possible also that inside he had considered the possibility to continue with the M as a friend or like a kind of roommate, witout libidinosus reachs. That can happen bc the great years you have together as a couple and bc tends to live the R like those countries R when they are neighbour, the share salutations, events and together parties but nothing more. I dont know what is really in your H mind but maybe you can do it right working for building a personal world interesting for you and atractive for him... I think you need to look youself in an world different of the anxious woman always alert of his reactions or that of the abnegate mother. It can be great you can build a work world or extra activities outside home that can give him a new appareance and for yourself. Think how you can do this and try changing the thematic in the conversations with him.Stop and try to find out what are the satisfactions he can be wishing to receive from you. The golden rule is not stop only in the economic discussion and to work in what can be behinf that.
I think is totally true i need a world for my own, a world i can feel professional realize and happy bc i use to work and create a lot and since 2 years ago i am at home, making some proyects but nothing stable. But here i find myself in a big problem bc although i try to find a work in what i like, i havnt luck until now... also i dont have money to do a course that i dream also to do and he neither has enpugh money for me for that. I began trying to build again my own world, sociable world, getting oput with friends, and also i began trying not caring too much abpout his reactions or moods... thats so difficult but i promiss i will try. In erotc point, i need to be sincere that i am not an erotic or sexy woman... i am "normal" one... always he is who looks for initiations... althpugh i now wear more sexy piyamas, that not my force... So, i will appreciate some tools or advices at this respect, bc i think i need also to put a little erotism in my behavior and acttitude. Not lookinf for him at a sexual way bc he is saying so clear he doesnt want it and i feel terrible after his rejection... but maybe trying to show him the other andrea.. i dont knwow if you understand me...!!... Well, the rest is the same... we are continue doing sthings and social events together... he is not being afectve but he is being polite... Stay in touch and i will appreciate your comments... Andrea
Well, Andrea - I think the advice you got is good, what we call Getting A Life. I'm not sure what is going on with your H. - It could be that he's mad at you for not having a job and is taking it out on you by witholding sex.
- It could be that the depression or some physical problem is causing him to lose desire and he is "saving face" by saying it is your fault.
- It could be that he is feeling unloved. Have you been speaking his "love languages" to him? There is a book many of us have read here - I will post a synopsis for you.
- It could be he is not seeing you as attractive. I know, appearance should not matter that much, but men are very visual, and it does matter to them. I have found that fairly small adjustments to my appearance (losing 20 pounds, wearing my contact lenses more instead of my glasses, wearing makeup, earrings and perfume, wearing clothes that are a little more stylish and sexy) make a HUGE difference to my husband. Are there some changes to your appearance that you could make? What would you do if you were single and looking to attract a new mate? Why not do those same things to attract your husband?
Your H needs to see you as a girlfriend again, not as a wife. Can you be a little flirtatious, funny, interesting, light-hearted? I know it is so difficult when all these anxieties are weighing you down, but the anxious, serious wife is not attractive.
Here is that summary of that book: The idea behind the Five Love Languages: There are five ways of expressing love - Physical touch (hugs, massage, kisses - not just sex)
Words of Affirmation (compliments, "gee, honey, you are so smart and handsome, you are so clever" etc.)
Acts of Service (cooking, cleaning, changing the oil in the car, doing and fixing things for the other person)
Quality time (being together, sharing an activity, having the full attention of your spouse)
Gifts (things, like jewelry, a new gadget, etc.)
Now, if I speak French, and you speak Japanese, you might be saying "I love you" but I wouldn't understand you.
In the same way, a man who expresses himself to his wife in Acts of Service (washing and maintaining her car, working hard to support her) might be saying ILY through those acts, but if his wife's languages is words of affirmation, she thinks he doesn't love her because he's not giving her cards with flowery words saying "I love you, you're so beautiful" etc.
Most people have two love languages which are the primary way they like to receive love. They are NOT necessarily the same as the languages they use to express themselves. (The person who does Acts of Service, for instance, may actually prefer to receive Words of Affirmation - "oh, thank you honey for washing my car, you are so sweet and so thoughtful!").
So - if you can figure out your H's love languages, and start speaking them to him, he may respond better.
Oh - and Andrea - could he be upset because he was snooping on your PC and saw the word "divorce"? Maybe you should just talk to him about this - just say "I know you saw some things on my computer the other day. I have been participating in an online support group for people trying to improve their marriages. I just wanted you to know what that was."
Ellie (BTW - I see I just posted that love languages stuff to you the other day! Guess my memory is failing!)
Dear Ellie: Thanks so much to be always there for me...!! About muy image, all i can tell you is that i always try to look the best for him, well, at morning i am not alll the best i can but yes, i always wear little clothes that remark my breast, etc... since jnuary i had lost 5 kilograms... i am caring about my calories intake and doing exercise... and yes, i feel better now with myself...!!.. but i still feel i am not the atractive he wants me to be...!!.. he wants a JLO and i am still far from that but i love myself About being more erotic and atractive in actitude, yes... i need to improve that, maybe making some comments picarous or hot, more humour and less serious, more jokes, i dont know a lot about being that way... i am so friendly, well mood, laughs a lot, but...... About himself feeling not loved... i cant imagine that but yes, it could be... but i am always there to help him, only yesterday i had sent him a phone message saying him: Congratulations to the doctor i admire and love the most...!!... even am not working i am trying to catch a big proyect and i help him with some money that cames to me from my last job liquidation... and i do for him a mensual newspaper that he brings to his med patience about his speciality...!! I dont think PC snooping have something to relate with his feelings, and i think is not a good idea to throw away the misterious issue around that snoop or some calls i had received that there was no one or were wrong calls and he assk with jealous who was it.. i only answered him: it was a wrong call... i dont know who was...!!... and thats all.. I also comment him i was expecting a good proyect to beguin and he was glad with that... i remark him that was so important for ME...!!... and yes it is...!! Abour love languages, he respond nice to Words of affirmation Right now he dont reject but no answer too much to physical touch... i dont know, maybe he is feeling myself trying not to show him affection even i want... maybe i can change this and be myself... what i want... being affective but accepting and not blaming if he doesnt response to my affections as i wants...?? The acts of service until nor didnt cause the effect i want so... for him maybe isnt so important...
The quality of times seems to be important but not as an erotic level but as a pleasent and calm R And the gifts languaje do not work or has the effects i need... so i stop that language...!! Again, thanks for being there and i will wait for your answer or comments...
Just trying to mantain my journal, even i am a little tired about all this situation... questioning DB again?!!... questioning if i really can made alone my M works...!! The weekend was ok in general... we went to a wedding on saturday and i really enjoy it although hw wasnt too much affective or caring about me..!. On sunday we went all the familly to an event in our kids school, and th situation was almost the same... he trys to be normal, attent, but sometimes it is like he hates me... No closer or intimate at all.. no touch or affection at all... I am getting desperate... and so needy to have a talk but i know we need to have a conversation in a calm way, without pressure, without hurtng and i dont know if thats possible... I wan to ask him... Why i feel like he hate me sometimes?... Whats is he needing from me and why he isant satisfied with R?... What is he thinking right now about R?... How is hefeeing with his C session? If he feel better or worst...?... What can i do to makes him feel better and to feel myself better?... But also i need those answers i am so afraid about what will be his answers, and how the conversation will be.... So, i need some advices... please, help me a little to control myself or to make the right move Andrea
Fnally we went out to talk... this is a ressume, fresh ressume... my h words in red... my words in green... While we went in the car I began saying
what i looked for, inviting him to have dinner, was to be able to talk relaxed, in calm, without the kids arund... that we can talk of which we wanted to talk, of those subjects that we felt to taste talking, without hurting, desires to damage to the other, with humor, peacefully. If we wanted to speak of us, so we do it, if we wanted to speak of the children, so we do it, of its training running, of my working project , of which really each one we wanted to speak.
In that we arrived at the restaurant requested whiskey bottle, we took the caldito... and he began to speak with the following:
what I think is that our M, this R has bad time, I do not know, I do not feel well and your either, I do not feel happy and you either. After all what we have lived... so... I am going to C session because I believe that I need it to know, to find out what is what it happens to me, if I am who is bad. I know that the fact that now I am thinner, that I am in this note of health, has affected to me. I perhaps love more myself but also perhaps there are certain values i had loose or i had taken other that I do not know if they are been mistaken, perhaps yes, perhaps the one that is mistaken is me...
I know that things do not have been the good that both wished, but by a side I express what i need from you, you know it, but by another side you do not communicate nor express nothing. Only you have been centered in the subject that you want me skinny, so thin, without smoking... but I believe that this issue, althpugh important, cannot be everything.
is not it everything, but it matters... You was so atractive and thin when we returned, and later you didnt care about yourself, your image, yoou began to smoke like a crazy person , your teeth you did not take care of them, you do not eat healthy, dont do exercise.... etc etc etc about my image
how you are saying that...??.. I will not be like Jennifer lopez, but I love and care myself more and more, every day I make exercises, I make my diets, I settle myself like amy woman who eats a dessert eventually... is certain that I have not been able to leave the cigarette, but that is so difficult for me, and yes, i wanted to leave it bc myself, my children, you, and I have not been able, the anxiety plays an important factor in that... but you know i am trying, i only smoke a little right now, not in front of you... i clean my teeths in dentist office.... but also I believe that isnt everything although it concerns so much to you...
nooo... how you can say that you take care of your image...?... perhaps you beleive that but isnt true... you do not eat healthy, etc etc.... but heyyy.... I am not saying that that is only the important thing, I do not know, maybe i am the one who is wrong... now I am another person... and perhaps that person that always I wanted to be, perhaps I never was the fatty XX you net... That is what I am analyzing... analyzing me, our relation, my relation with my parents, my work... you had dvice me to do C session, that this was so important for me and both ... perhaps that in a future we will be laughing about this crisis... or not... Also the age influences, I do not know, i am 43, and I pay attention to my papa and my mother, who never have been happy nor knew how to be happy... The other day, before going away to the island, passed my papa by my doctor's office, with a face of defeated, saying me that he did not support my mother, that he was going with her to sell the apartment although they did not consult it, but that later any thing could happen, and I remained shut up, thinking... what hell can pass... if you are 70 years old, pa where you are going to take hold at this point? Now what you can fix...?
And why they didnt fixed it... they were separated...?
Yes, and you remember... that my mother get jelaous because he was leaving with a woman lawyer... You remember? And then they returned...
and they were well.
Yes, and we used to said them the "tortolitos", so lovely, but later they returned to the same
can it be because your mother never gave affection him, mimos to that old... because your old one never changed its stubborn and maniátic way, always claiming... who knows?
Yes, but I put myself to think, that that is my father, and I am son of him...
So, you mean that you take that in the genes...?... No, the people can be very different from what they have criticized or judged...
Well, that is what I am trying to analyze in C sssions... i use to make comparition, when M who had lived also crisis and had returned so happilly, being seen other couples... Also another that made the decision to separate and also they have remade their life...!!... See... when I think about an ideal marriage, you know about what I think... in you papa and your mother...!!... that in spite your mother had many errors, your papa would have others, but their R was perfect, was loved, wanted...
It cheers to me that at least of this living together you have been able to enjoy one of the people who i love more in my life... And perhaps bc living so close to that relation, is that I refuse to have one R with so many faults, deficiencies and necessities for me...! I was very near my papa, trusted me so many times when he was mad with my mother... but he always loved her, lofe for her, care so much about her until he died...
Yes... and you had done crazy saying once, in those mails that you wrote being separate, that I had said that your papa was alcoholic...
I never said that, because I know how much you loved my papa...
Yes, you did it, I have it kept, in a folder with all mails that you had sent while we were separate...
ahhh, you have a folder...??... a file of all?... (i said that laughing)
yes... and perhaps will came a day when we can read it and laugh...
Good, so look for it and bring it to me bc i cant remember saying that...
I do not know if i can find it, but you said it... and said that bc you had reasons... because you were so badly, I was doing in a mistake way... leaving with carolina... with a girl of 25 years, showing me for everybody... Clear that you had to be wounded...!!...
and what trigger this crisis now that you feel... because although you say that we do not have been well or, the things flowed... without much communication, with dissatisfactions of side and side, but we passed it that last december in the island, so lovely, and we made love, and after a conversation so heavy we had one night while we were there, you look for me at bed, saying to me that you loved me, that was clear you want to be with me... and this... what happened, what could trigger it...?
I dont know... everything did not come well... well, perhaps it was seing you fatty, the teeth... well, already you had taken off the stones in your teeths, but now...!!...
ys, it is clear... your eternal philosophy of already you miss that train... XXX can we together raise to the hill?... you missed the train... XXX can we train jogging together?... no, already you missed the train... From my intimate scents, you jump to the teeth, and from to what??... ahh, to the nails...?!!.... See. i feel so confortable with my self, of course i can be better, but right now i love my image... I am this woman... and much people love me being me, bc my values, my image...
Hey, I am not saying that that is the only important... but everything what we happened, and we have not learned of that.... I was with a young girl, that does not matter now and mean nothing, but my hormones excite because she was so atractive, skinny
XXXX, you do not know what you are losing with that attitude??... The life is short for those pendejadas... The life is flavorful to accept that although she is late, the other person loves you and wants to share with you.. Since death of Alexander Kovacs (a mutua doctor friend who died suddenly) stuck much to me... a shining type, in best epoca of its life, with a happy pair, and zás he killed himself... I do not know if maybe bc my 40 years, i had begun to questioning my life, my relation... the time that I take wishing the impossible thing to obtain from you at least until this moment... the wanting it you cause me... I have retaken my psychologist also, because I want to analyze myself... I want to analyze what I really want and what agrees to me... and if what I want is possible... i will love to share the rest of my life by your side, giving you affection that today I deprive myself of giving you bc my dignity, helping you, making you feel supported, but I have said myself that I am rowing single... that single, only by myself, cannot arm the scene, the new R better for you and for me....!!... You said we have not learned anything of which had happened, and i think the contrary... yes... that we learned much... Because on second separation I really felt with forces to face a new world single... with my kids maybe i will meet another couple... I denied to accept a relation in the heat of crisis, because it wasnt healthy, because was not going to leave nothing good until i closed your door... and thus i said to my friends, but knew inside that sooner or later that door would be closed... and with the persistence i put in that I believe that was going to be faster of which thought... about that second separation I felt so confortable with my new space, my friendships, my kids, my life without you... And yes... I know i love you so much, but i will cry, and time will follow.... and I can do it by my own with my kids...
Single with your kids?... no, I will be wih them also...! (Annoying)
Single, with my kids... I do not mean that they are not going to have you... i know you will be there for them... but I will be single with them day to day... perhaps with a couple later, but equal... from Monday through Friday single with them... mami I have a celebration, and i single take them... mami i have a party and single take the other... you are going to see them, but a weekend yes and the other one not... That is the reality and point... maybe is your torments and feelings of fault that are bothering but what i had said is the true...
all i want is my family until always... being together always...
is not the family, is me... when you returned the last time i said it to you... they are going to be ok... luckyly isabella every day takes it better with me, anabella was the one who had the crisis in the past, I will have to take it better... but they are going to be ok...!!... it is about us... about me!!
Good, I do not know... I wanted to know what I feel... I do not want to throw, to make love, and then the same situation......
but we are leaving with other famillies travelling, and taking a fictitious familiar life... i worry bc the kids, I feel bad lying them, that think that papi and mami are so good and suddenly , zás, divorce... because between us are no fights, nor shouts... In addition I prefer that my women kids have in me the example of wht a woman deserve from a R, and what she must not accept more. I prefer that they understand that their mami separated from daddy because she did not feel loved, because papi did not love her, that they do not lives the example you had lived with your parents, as you say they do not support nor they fixed to nothing...!!....
(Shut up, thinking)... Also the economic thing worries me... I do not know, the med consult sometimes is well, sometimes receives anybody..
and I am the cause, or have done something for preocuparte you more...? I try always to help you... perhaps with the stork or the other newspaper that I do to you, they, does not help nothing, but I feel at least that yes... and I do not works as your secretary because respect your space, I believe that this is totally counter-productive...
Clear that they help me a lot....!!... is tremendous aid.... but also every day you call me and always it is for requesting to me money for a gift, money for the other... things that I know must buy... I know that you do not spend it in chanell, in.... but you must call, and I understand that you must make those expenses... i know that in the past you did work and I felt more alleviated
Thus it is, and i did not want being always requesting money, i feel bad too... in fact you will be realizing that now your own kidss call you when they need money, because if above I have to call whenever they have an excursion, verbena, or any other cost... hopefully had a current account ... but I do not have.... for some reason you have not given it to me... And is full important for me... because of a side it is the economic point, but by another one I am a shining woman, with much to create professionally, so I am moving in that way....
I have to pick up my child... i will continue later... i will appreciate your coments...
what I feel is that you must make things different... seems excelent for me that you are analyzing yourself... for you and for me... because definitively with your confusion we did not arrive at no side... but I want request that you take into account this woman who you have in front... that loves you so much and has demonstrated it, and does not deserve more damage, wounds, bad treatments... sometimes is like you hate me... I recognize that you make an effort trying to be considered, kind... but in infinity of occasions it leaves to shine that wounded, rabid glance, that wounded and hurtind comments... What I have done to you...?? I have made you damage....?...
Pause... I went to the bath, I returned
What i think it is that to the end always we are going to divorce... that there are unsalvable things...
or that you do not wish to save. then why to follow the picture if you have the conclusion...
hey... it is you who is saying that... I said that I do not know what is going to happen...
but you have between eyebrow and eyebrow the word: Divorce....!!
For anybody will be surprise that we get divorce... we do not have well been... people knows that ...
what is what you are doing... preparing the land...?... because I hate that play already... if you wanted to divorce, be brave to make your suitcases and to make the decision... I had said that i wanted to try it, both, that is, I I want to save it, but you not...
I did not say that, i wish we could followed together, but I do not know what will happen, how wll this end... you are very impulsive, you want the answers already... I am hardly beginning a process... a process to see me my self, my relation with my children, you... understand why I feel like i feel... the C is so good and i feel he is helping me
You know something...? That i finishes deciding that now is called on me to be selfish... that I am going away to make an effort, but to prepare without any hope... to feel myself safer and secure... and more and more happy with myself... in order to end a dream or proyect of life that I cannot have....
You see, watches as you put yourself... I do not know if it is good for us speaking these things... is perhaps precipitated.
it seem excellent to have spoken to me... I believe that there will be more to speak.... to be clear both of towards where we go....!!.... if definitively you think that I am the cause of your torments... that your consultation is bad because of me, that you feel rabid by fault mine, that you cant be with a young gir bc of me, that you cannot have the small plane bc of me.., is worth, takes the decision, comunicate it and point.... I repeat to you, I have fought and work for another solution, but this is not a single effort or R... so now I will take care more of my self....
That was the conversation.... we got home, get slept... and this morning he called me just to help him going to his doctors office bc his secretary had fallen... so, i said yes, but then he again ring me to say thanks but that the lady will stay seated and attend the phone... that is the first tim my h ask me to help him at work or feel confortable with me being at his office...
I will wait for your comments... right now i am just analizyng my own thoughts Andrea
How did everyone react to your 180, organising the family get together? Part of the process here is to observe results, so that you can do more of what works 
Slowly
