I"m leaving for the meeting. If anyone has an extra prayer, throw it my way! I did see H for a minute just now before he left, and he didnt seem as "distant" as he used to when he'd stop by. it's hard to explain.
just a minute for a quick post/update. I may have gotten some of the information I so desperately needed last night from H....in fact I think I did. I'll post here and then try to pick out pertinent "bit's" later as I have time.
Yesterday evening at the annual meeting was really really rough. As I expected, ow was not there either. of course my mind went to town. many people asked where H was, and it was like being stabbed with a hot poker every time. my only answer was "he's not here...."
By the time I got home, I had a full head of steam well under way, and was ready to pack and leave. h was doing weights in the basement, and I was so furious I went through the house, got a bottle of beer, and went out and sat on the porch swing to drink it and cool off. I was really afraid I'd do something hugely awful...I came in the house when I finished the drink, and H was going around looking for me. I still let him have it, but with just one barrel instead of both thanks to the beer. I asked him if he and his friend had had a great evening, and he wanted to know what friend and what I was talking about. (I have to admit he did look clueless). I said that again, and he still acted like he didnt get it. Then I told him she hadnt been there so they must have enjoyed an evening together. Of course he got furious, said he was sick of this, he had been right there all evening, had been by himself all evening, no one had been at the house.
....I asked him why on earth I would want to believe that when I'd heard and believed his lies so many times before. he said he didnt know why he stays. I said "you don't have to, get yourself down there to her" ...he yelled at me "it's over!"....I yelled back, unfortunately, why would I believe that, what observable facts do I have that tell me anything is any different than all the times you've lied before and I was such a sucker I fell for it, and why should I fall for it again? H yelled again "IT'S OVER, and I don't know why she wasnt there or where she was, I didnt know she wasnt going because I don't keep track of her"...He yelled again "IT's over" and I yelled back that I had nothing but his say so which no longer holds up...he then said "What do you want"... and I told him he knows what I want/need to know that he's being truthful...he didnt really respond to that, just kept yelling "IT IS OVER!"...then he stomped into the living room to watch tv, and I started to unload the dishwasher. In about 10 minutes, H actually came to the kitchen, took me in his arms and kissed me, and apologized for being so angry, said he was exhausted and frazzled, and just couldnt take it right now...something in his voice was so sincere, it made me feel like for once he Is being honest. I started to cry ( ick), put my head on his shoulder, told him for the millionth time ILY and I want us to work, but that it's hard, very very hard....instead of being angry and impatient as usual, he held me and kissed me and said "I know it is"; I said "I try, but some things just seem to get the better of me and I lose it"...H said, very tenderly, "I know, and it makes sense, I just didnt think it would be such minor stuff"...he said again "I really was here alone all evening"...I told him, still crying, that I wanted him to be here because he wants to, not out of guilt or what ever, and he said "I do want to be here, I like our house"??????? ???? I told him "I want you to be WITH ME because you WANT to, not out of guilt or obligation, or what ever....he said I DO want to BE HERE. then he said something about he had thought we were doing really well, getting along really good, and that he'd thought I thought our M/R was worth working on, trying for; he thought we'd come a long ways, but wasnt sure what to think from how upset I was when he'd done nothing, and that it is really hard for him to take because it's hard to live with.
I kind of blubbered and cried, lost all my db skills for a while. then quit crying, told him I want us to be great, and I also thought we were doing well, but some of this stuff just gets to me. he said he knew and understood (that is actually new for him to say). Then he commented that it is over, he wants to be at home, but he is really having a tough time at work and getting depressed again (that is terrifying to me!) and that he just sometimes needs some space and some down time alone, because even with working on the weekends things are so busy at work that he can't keep up. He said "I need a Haven". (I think that's important to remember)...
Then he said "why don't you just come in and watch a little tv with me"...so I did.
when we went to bed, he actually started to initiate, then sort of collapsed in my arms, saying how exhausted he was. I just held him for a little bit until we fell asleep. we were both exhausted. Today he seems actually pretty good, cheerful, although tired.
Do some of you all who've been able to get through this A crap believe that it is possible to believe what they say based on their tone, attitude, expression, etc? I guess I'm asking because I want to so badly, yet I'm so afraid to, and so ingrained to not trust anything they say and only 1/2 of what they do. Somehow though, this seems different, his words somehow seem more sincere, the look in his eyes is different, his arms around me are different, he stroked my forehead tenderly as I was crying instead of getting angry about it, it's very nearly if not a 1st for him to come to me and apologize when frankly I was in the wrong. but it "felt" like a sincere apology, not a guilty "I better make up to keep her off balance" kind of apology. I've been thinking of the old Eagles song, ..."you can't hide your lyin' eyes, and your smile can't disguise....there aint no way to hide your lyin eyes"
I don't know, I just need to pick this apart, I guess, but the thought has occurred to me that maybe we are "there", and I just can't see it yet. oh, how I wish.
Wow, Deb, I think you are just about there. I know I have wanted to do that very thing you did--ASSume and accuse. You probably should have had a couple more beers! Anyway, my H started out telling me he knew OW wasn't good for him. But I noticed he couldn't give her up just yet. We were separated at that time. Things were getting worse with her and her drinking but he still was trying to get comfort from her. Finally I just told him I had better things to do and started go out with an old MF. I didn't have any romantic feelings for MF but it was a distraction. After a couple of weeks H missed me and called. I was out with MF and my son told him I was out with a friend. Finally H figured it out and started calling my cell phone frantic. He didn't want me to be with anyone else and that was truly the end of OW. Now I'm not saying go out and get yourself a "friend", I'm just saying what happened to me. Even though OW was gone, we stayed separated for another 8 months. Once I saw her car in the morning at a bar my H went to. I couldn't help it, I called his cell phone and he didn't answer. I kept calling and finally after a couple of hours I left an accusing message. Boy was he mad. He had left his phone in a friend's car and hadn't even been at that bar.
So I knew I had to get a handle on that, I had to trust and believe what he told me or I was going to keep going crazy like that. It is hard, but your H needs you to trust him. He knows he messed up bad and he seems to want your forgiveness. But he won't be able to ask for it and might not even be able to say he is sorry--mine could not. He cannot talk about it at all.
So, all I can say is try to keep a handle on the ASSuming--that will get you in so much trouble. And don't worry about analyzing his attitudes, body language, etc. Just try really hard to take his word and relax. Whenever you bring OW up, it makes him think about her--I bet you don't really want to do that. My H always asked me to let things happen naturally, relax and let him be comfortable with me. I hope some of that helps.
I am going through same thing with my H. He has never admitted the A which is painful for me. But now he seems to be tellign the truth. He is home earlier, he seems to be trying. I also can't put my finger on it but I feel like he is being sincere.
But and here's the BUT, once we have been burned it is hard to go in there, trust and risk that sort of pain again.
I also lost it big time with my H last weekend. I accused him of lying to me and said we need to get a D if he is going to keep doing this.
Then I found out from an independent source that he really was where he said he was that day. I felt really bad about my nagging etc that weekend.
And now H is angry and says he feels boxed in.
Some how if you want the M you have to try to trust again. Otherwise whats the point.
Thanks for your posts it helps to know others are handling similar sitchs succcessfully.
Deb I have been reading your posts and I agree with Mollie, I think you are almost there. Good Luck!
What did Sage say awhile back about our minds putting pieces of "evidence" together when otherwise we would have discounted it.
It is the toughest thing your probably ever going to do, but you need to quit tracking the "evidence", because until you do your attitudes toward H will show through the "act as if".
If you track evidence long enough sometimes you'll be right and sometimes you'll wrong, but the only way to the otherside is drop the rope which means you won't have to "act as if" but just "be" knowing H will stumble sometimes like you do through this process, but then get up and hopefully see the great changes in you.
Not trying to preach but offer encouragement and say give yourself a break on your stumbling your doing great just don't let the crazies git ya.
???? I told him "I want you to be WITH ME because you WANT to, not out of guilt or obligation, or what ever....he said I DO want to BE HERE. then he said something about he had thought we were doing really well, getting along really good, and that he'd thought I thought our M/R was worth working on, trying for; he thought we'd come a long ways, but wasnt sure what to think from how upset I was when he'd done nothing, and that it is really hard for him to take because it's hard to live with.
Anyway, my H started out telling me he knew OW wasn't good for him. But I noticed he couldn't give her up just yet. We were separated at that time. Things were getting worse with her and her drinking but he still was trying to get comfort from her. Finally I just told him I had better things to do and started go out with an old MF. I didn't have any romantic feelings for MF but it was a distraction. After a couple of weeks H missed me and called. I was out with MF and my son told him I was out with a friend. Finally H figured it out and started calling my cell phone frantic. He didn't want me to be with anyone else and that was truly the end of OW. Now I'm not saying go out and get yourself a "friend", I'm just saying what happened to me. Even though OW was gone, we stayed separated for another 8 months. Once I saw her car in the morning at a bar my H went to. I couldn't help it, I called his cell phone and he didn't answer. I kept calling and finally after a couple of hours I left an accusing message. Boy was he mad. He had left his phone in a friend's car and hadn't even been at that bar.