I have no doubt that "affection" means something different to both of us. She has (prior to last night) given me hugs and kisses, but that's about it, and that's about what she usually gives me. Has she given me more than HER "normal"? Not that I can tell.
It sounds like everyone is very much on top of very good advice - let me just throw a couple of .cents in. Re the direct topic, the owning up when confronted.
Okay, you've stated your W is a perfectionist, but what is your perception of her - do you think she's "perfect" (not in the R of course). But I am willing to bet that you, in general, think she's very good right to the last detail at things she sets her mind at. And I am also willing to bet that you are a generalist, "hey looks pretty good, now I can get more accomplished over there". It's my simple opinion that to solve the lie(ing) problem you just need to understand that you and your W probably even each other out well. Instead of looking at her perfecting as THE only right way, realize you offer just as much to the task of everyday living - just in a different and possibly more refreshing way.
This is the R my H and I have/had and I understand ALL TO WELL the split instinct feeling of "oh crap, here comes THAT look again!" and opting out to say what you think they want to hear and maybe you can fix it before they notice you didn't do it right the first time. It's really just a matter of realizing they are your mate/friend/accomplice in life. Not a teacher/parent or someone you have to look up to just OVER to. You accept and get comfy with yourself and all the wonderful things you bring to her life and she will probably follow suit when she realizes "Hey, he's not a perfectionist and it wouldn't be fun anyway if he were"
Hairy, We, as a couple, have had to really learn how to compromise. Meaning, there are areas in our lives that neither of us will EVER do in the way the other wants and we MUST find ways around this.
One example of this is something that I find quite disgusting. My H likes to give our girls their baths at night. It is their playtime and bonding time. I'm usually off doing the dishes or whatever. This all sounds lovely but he gets lazy sometimes (which is QUITE out of character for him, just as I'm sure lying is for you) and doesn't use soap. He just sorta 'rinses' them with water. Yuck!, I say. So I used to ask, Did you wash the kids? and he'd truthfully answer 'yes' even though he washed them with H20 and not soap! So I wised up to that and now I say, Did you wash the kids...with SOAP? and he will sheepishly say, No.......but I'm goingtodoitrightnow! and we laugh. Actually we are both laughing before I even finish the with SOAP part of the question.
My point is that by injecting a little humor and compromise into our lives, we are able to look at each other and know that we're not perfect, but still find a way around it that doesn't end with one of us berating the other.
Another example (and more serious, imo) is that I can't for the life of me remember to log debit card transactions in our check register. My H fought me tooth and nail on getting a debit card because he said that I would never remember to deduct the spent money. He's right, I don't remember. For years, this resulted in him having raging fits at me and still I couldn't remember. Well, I remembered more often but it was out of a sense of "man I have GOT to remember this or my ass is grass..." instead of any great desire to be fiscally responsible. In all other areas I am responsible with our money and perhaps even better with it than my H, but he's the Keeper of the Check Register, I'm afraid. The solution has been for him to ask me when I return from an outing, "Do you have any receipts for me?" and I hand them over. Or, I keep them in a certain place in my wallet so that he knows to check there if the checkbook is not matching up. I rarely go anywhere so this is not as huge of a deal as it could be but STILL, I know that I should do a better job at this task. I am hit and miss with it when I don't have the distraction of kids and terrible with it, now that I do.
Anywayyyyy, my point is that we could have continued to make this our hill to die on but instead we've found a way around it.
I think that your wife finds this type of interaction really troublesome. She doesn't want to have to "find a way around" things because there is Right and there is Wrong. But IRL, when you are married to another person..a person with flaws, you HAVE to find ways around it. You can't get hung up on small things.
Having said that, a lie is no small thing. Make amends.
Yes, but a small lie is a small lie and NOT all lies are equal. If someone asks me if I color my hair and I say no that is not equivalent to lying on my resume about having a degree. Besides, as Hairy pointed out, she already knew the answer. This transaction was not about lying, it was about Mrs H wanting to nail HD.
That's true, it was a small lie but his lies from the past have been whoppers--specifically about their financial standing. So if dishonesty is a hot button issue for her, then he needs to be especially mindful of that and act accordingly.
I don't think it's so much about the actual fib, but the history they share together. She doesn't trust his word, so he needs to take extra precautions to make sure that he is truthful with her.
I just got off the phone with her. She asked if I understood why she was upset, and I ticked off the reasons why. She was also mad that I hadn't called to talk about this, and that I hadn't talked about it last night. She's tired of having to be the one to initiate conversations after my numerous fcuk-ups. I tried to explain that I was waiting for tempers to cool, but she said I was just avoiding her. She thinks I am sabotaging the relationship, and that I WANT to leave the M.
I apologized, but apparently not soon enough, and not for all the right things, and apparently not sincerely enough.
Geeze, I'm tired of all this. I have to treat her with kid gloves, and she treats me with boxing gloves.
Hairy, What do you do during these conversations? Do you ever validate her or are you stuck in the "gotta defend myself" position?
I wrote on another thread that I have had lots o luck in validating my H's pov, even when I think he's whacko.
Something along the lines of "I can see how you would feel that way" or "I can see how it would look that way" would do a lot to take the wind outta her sails. She thrives on that wind, so every little bit helps slow her down right.
Just a thought.
Hang in there, you've got a long weekend ahead, lol.
HD. I am miffed at both of you. Here is what I would do in your situation. You do whatever you think you should.
"Wife, you are right, I bold face lied about the pills, and you directly set me up to do it. So, you are right, WE are back to square one, BOTH of us, because I can't trust YOU now."
Bad form on the part of both parties.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
HP, I validate the heck out of her....probably overdo it. But I also try to defend myself. I was very defensive last night, but not too much so this afternoon.
I know it's going to be a long weekend. Thanks for your help today.
NOP: I actually asked her about "setting me up" regarding the pill bottles, and she said that when she opened the cabinet and saw the bottles, she was "confused" but denied a trap. I know, just because she said she didn't set me up doesn't make it true.
As far as ME trusting HER, remember, I don't necessarily need that "SAFE PLACE" as much as she does in order to have physical and emotional intimacy. I certainly lost a lot of trust in her several months ago when we had a fight about me sleeping in HER bed, and she said she was going to call the police and say I was abusing her...she even went so far as to dial the phone and make it look like it was 911 (although she hadn't really called 911). Now, I'm supposed to just forget all about that and move forward.
But I'm the guy that would begin to rebuild my trust in her if only she would start showing me physical intimacy.
