Okay, this is not directly sex (or lack thereof) related but is directly related to R with H. I was a stay-at-home M for 5 years until approximately 3 mos. ago., H really liked this. I took a temp job which will end this Friday, therefore I will be becoming a stay-at-home M once again. This is fine/great. I love my kids very much and due to my past childhood experiences it is important to me and also my H (his mom was a SATM) to keep the kids out of daycare.
This is the advise I need. There are so many issues flying out there in our R right now. We were adjusting to the schedule of me working which brought up so many things re: his parenting in direct relation to how much he depended on his mother to do in that regard. (she basically lives with us). That will pretty much resolve itself come next week however my attitude when it comes to that, hey I'm only human, will not. I have tried discussing this issue with him and he just DOES NOT get it.
Okay, next Money. H likes me home - when at the temp job we only saw each other on weekends and because, let's be honest, it's easier at the homefront and he doesn't have to depend on his mother for anything (in my opinion he shouldn't have gotten himself in the habit of letting her come over from morning until I got home to watch the kids but I understand it made his life easier and then he didn't have to deal with toddlers under foot. Not justifying, TRUST ME, I just understand WHY he did it. But, I won't be bringing home a paycheck now and he's already gone on the "money is tight" warpath.
Background: My H loves to worry - loves it loves it! Part of his personality. Almost one of his endearing traits really. I love this man and he's got THE best and most holsum (sp?) of hearts but at times it can be taxing. I have no doubt he will bring up "$" everyday, literally. Don't get me wrong, we are a single income family and not the Rocherfellers (sp?) but my pantry is packed and kids are nicely dressed - not as tight as my H would have someone believe.
So, I'm going to be adjusting to being at home 24-7, little adult convo & a H who knows he has a captive audience for his ranting......
This may sound and be a little extreme, but I think I've gotten my point across.
How much of a say do you have in your financial planning? Do you have a budget?
And do you stick to that budget, no matter what?
I can relate to having a worrywart pennypincher for a husband. Really, though, it's more than that. He wants to unload his worries onto me. When he is venting, it is his way of releasing all the pressure that he feels in being the sole provider for our family. (and SOUL provider for me, to quote a cheesy Michael Bolton song, LOLOL) This would be fine, except that his venting just infects me with worry and anxiety and I don't want it.
We have jointly created a budget. I stick to it, without fail. Money is tight but we are far from being poor. We have a 15 year mortgage and keep small loans on our car, so things like that make money tighter than the average family, etc.
So nowadays when he wants to vent his financial woes, I listen with an "action oriented" ear and if he is not wanting to talk about what to do, I simply tell him that I can't talk about it right then. I will not allow him to use me as a stress release, any more than he'd allow me to use HIM as a sexual stress release. It is going to be him and I, tackling things together..working through things together..not one of us using the other as a whipping post.
That is not to say that I won't be there to just let him talk..or air his worries, of course I will. But there is a difference between that and him yelling and ranting about it. I will not participate in that. He still tries to do this from time to time, but I don't participate and believe it or not, he has stopped.
Now if he is feeling stressed over money, I am able to redirect the conversation towards something productive because he knows I won't participate otherwise. Also, I have had to sorta "coach" him on how to vent his worries in an acceptable way, kwim? He needs to get it out, but as NOPkins pointed out, he's a dude and therefore not the best with getting in touch with his feelings. If I can lead him there and show him (with my example, NOT by telling him "this is how you do it, ya idiot"). Oftentimes I have to say "are you worried about this?" or "What can I do about this to help out?"..things like that make him feel that we are on the same side and that I am not responsible for the temporary hard times.
I'm not sure if this is what you were getting at, but it has worked for me. I just calmly say that I'm not discussing anything in which I am going to get yelled at, but that I'm more than willing to talk about the situation. And then I stick to that and walk if he starts getting angry with me.
So what are some goals you can set, with respect to the finances and the upcoming change of job?
I have a working wife, and I will say that I don't see how that improves my marriage at all, if anything, it makes it worse. But you have to look at what your reasons are for working. If it is for money, then you would probably be shocked to find out that many working women actually COST their familes money! ABC 20/20 analysed a family in Boston years ago to relive the stress in the family and found that if the wife QUIT the families income would actually increase. There are a lot of hidden costs to being a working MOM, like tax increases, social security, extra car payments, clothing for the job, eating out way too much, etc. My own wife makes 50K a year, and have 3 months off during the summer. Even using inexpensive childcare for only 9 months a year, I figured out that it took at least 65% of her income to pay for items that allowed her to have a job!!! If she was making 25-30k a year, she would have actually LOST the family money to work. So you should really analyze every single item in your families budget to see if working is really worth it. Do you really want to work if it costs you 60 cents of every dollar you make just to allow you to have a job?
HP & CM, thanks so much for responding! First, HP, girl you are right on the money (pardon the pun). My H loves to worry and I just don't/can't allow myself to think like that. But, it's like he tries to get me to stress - almost like it justifies HIM being stressed then. So I can totally relate to the whipping post theory. I have, thanks so this BB, tried to start telling him "honey do you realize that what you just said might be construed as hurtful or condemning", and by the look on his face as well as what he says is, "no, I honestly didn't mean it that way", but if I was just an average joe-smoe I'd be close to punching him sometimes with the tone he takes (okay not punching, maybe hitting him with my SAHM frying pan - hee/he! )
I used to do the bills, but, to try to get him to relieve some of his anxiety about finances I agreed to let him take over the actual paying of them - WRONG DISICION - however, now he is unable to let go - it was like I almost FED his problem with it. (we live and learn I guess) We do have a budget so to speak. Which was kind of foregone while I worked that I sure we will decide to pick up again next week. We use a cash in the envelope type of arrangement, that pays for groceries, kids doctor bills, gas etc. That ensures no impulse purchases that can't be afforded for both of us. The extra $ was nice for this 3 mos., but I'm fine with going back to that lifestyle BUT, I think that this will only fuel his need to excessively go on and on about it - its' almost like he has nothing else to talk about.
A good friend of mine has brought up a very important fact. H has a very stressful job and maybe that's how he deals with it. So I am currently trying to decide how to approach him with this to help him with this. I mean, really, it's not healthy.
Let me also add more detail about the MIL/his husband duties because, right now it is an issue with me that I can't seem to solve with him. Example. The other night S5 is sick, throwing up, I was up with him before H got home from work. And continued to be up with him until 4:00 a.m., (take into consideration I get up at 5:00 to go to work). thus, was up with him long after H WENT TO BED. (okay, I'm thinking this is not right because afterall he gets to sleep in right, but I digress). Before he goes to bed I ask "do you want me to go in late tomorrow or do you think you can handle this" (D1.5 also had an ear infection, thus providing the need for extra attention also). He says "no, I can handle it". I reiterated I would, and that both kids were sick and he said no, he can handle it. Here is where I get a little perturbed. I speak with Granny (his mom) at 9:00 a.m .who is at my house (as usual) and letting Scott sleep because S5 was sick (yes, I am aware of this IIIIIII was the one up with him). Of course I just inquire about S5 and let it go. Again at 10:30 I speak with son and H is still sleeping. Okay, someone please call me out on the carpet on this one - but I think this is complete shirking of parental duties. The guy has 2 sick kids and relies on me and his mom to take care of it. Come on. When I did speak with him about it, he went on and on about how he was tired, had taken some medication for his back and it knocked him out - sorry, I don't care, but I do not tell him this. It isn't until he started griping about what his mother fed our children for breakfast that I take the opportunity to point out, if he had gotten up and taken care of them himself then it woudlnt' be an issue. He had to quickly get off the phone surprisingly.
I could go on and on but it's just relaying my bad attitude and also maybe pointing out that one of the reasons I am so worried about next week is we have a real issue with my self-value and what I perceive he thinks my value is.
CeMar, I do totally understand what you are saying about mom's who work and the cost of same, I think I saw the same report - very good point. I also take into consideration that these are good years for parents/kids to bond. I mean in a few years they are even going to CARE if I'm around much less want it right?
I understand your concern. This sounds a bit like my H. My in-laws are at our house every day watching the kids. They are happy with this, they've offered to do it, so I can work. H loves this situation, but I dislike that he takes advantage of it, by staying at work as long as possible, and being involved in several different societies, meaning he's off at meetings several times a month, so the in-laws are often there with the kids from 2 - 9pm.
In addition, if I'm gone for the day on a weekend, I know full well that H will have the kids at his parents.
At one point I tried having a neighbor girl come in one day a week to take some of the load off the in-laws (76 and 80 yrs). H complained constantly that he had to be home by 6pm, and that he often had to feed the kids (!). He once called me to ask how to feed them (I make dinner before I leave in the afternoon, so it's just a matter of heating it up and putting it on the table.)
Do, please, try to find a way to talk about this before it becomes a greater issue. Along with the money issue as well. H took over our bills 5 yrs ago when we moved in here, for the same reasons. He's a perfectionist, and couldn't deal with not knowing where every penny went. I hope you are able to sit down and work on a budget that will keep him happy.
I don't feel I'm in a position right now to give advice. But I do hope you are able to work it out before it grows into a monster. It sounds like you're well on your way.
Would you like me to come down and explain things to him? I hear OK is nice this time of year .
Here is what he needs to learn: his children need him. They need to feel that they can go to him to help take care of their needs. If he is not there for them now, they won't come to him when they might really need him in the future. This becomes more important for them as they get older, not less.
He probably doesn't realize that he will come to appreciate them more as they get older. I think many of us guys enjoy the kids more when they are elementary school age. They are lots of fun and bring out the kid in us. However, when it's fun time, they won't come to him for that, either, because they won't have a relationship with him. Some day when those kids are grown up, and they call home, he'll pick up the phone and hear, "Hi, Dad, can I talk to Mom?" Won't that be sad?
He needs to learn this. You can teach him, just like my wife taught me.
I feel like singing "Cats in the Cradle" by Harry Chapin.
SM
"If we will be quiet and ready enough, we shall find compensation in every disappointment." Henry David Thoreau
How did your W 'teach' you? This is something I would love for H to learn, but my attempts have been poor. The kids are one area that we (usually) are able to discuss without any problems, but even me telling him how much fun we've had, or pointing out some cute thing one of them said, or what wonderful insight one of them gave, he doesn't seem to be interested in doing things together. Maybe it's because I'm involved as well. He doesn't seem to be able to 'share' them very well, or maybe I'm too overprotective where he's concerned.
He will sing with them, and occasionally play computer games with them, read with them, but doesn't show much interest in their own activities.
Already, the girls come to me first, and tonight, when H was in a good mood, and I encouraged S4b to show him some very wonderful pictures he drew today, S4b said he didn't feel like it.
I only hope my own actions haven't contributed to that too much. I fight with that a lot as well.
I was ready to learn. My W's biggest complaint has always been my lack of involvement with the family. When she says that, she means her and the kids. She is not particularly interested in spending time with me alone. Anyway, two years ago, I finished a graduate degree, and found myself with some spare time. I knew that I had been neglecting them, and I was finally able to hear my wife.
The kids still go to W first. She is Mom - there is no substitute. But they like talking to me and doing stuff with me now.
SM
"If we will be quiet and ready enough, we shall find compensation in every disappointment." Henry David Thoreau
My H's involvement with the kids has also been an issue in our house. We define spending time with the kids differently. I see it as one-on-one attention, playing games, reading etc. He on the other hand feels that if he is working on the car in the garage and the kids are in the yard, he is spending time with them. I have nagged him to death about taking an interest in the kids but nagging, of course doesn't work so I have decided instead to use "gentle guidance". For example, I suggested that this weekend he take the kids sledding. It is an activity where he will be focused on the kids, not on his car, the t.v. etc. AND since I don't like the snow.....I will get a little me time (kill two birds, eh?). I think that any behavior change happens over time. If I make enough suggestions then hopefully over time, he will initiate the activities himself.
ChaChaCha - Yeessssss, that is exactly what my H does as well, gosh, this makes me feel so much better actually. I think that SM is right in that maybe what we are asking doesn't come naturally for the father and we should direct. I like your approach about offering suggestions for activities, kind of removes the "in the dark" aspect of it. I have tried talking with him about the whole issue and to be honest, he thinks that if he's in the same room with them then that's time - but I know he notices that I interact with them, because he always mentions what a good mom I am (that's very nice to hear BTW). Example, we were at a teachers meeting for preschool for S5, (S5 is a genious of course LOL) he kept giving examples of how I "help/play" with the kids. "Yep, she's down on the floor coloring with them, tea parties, helping them cut picts out of magazines, giving horsie-rides". At one point I looked over and WANTED to say Do you hear yourself, you keep saying "she" don't you wish you could say "me/I". However, I think it just flew over his head. (I would NEVER embarrass him like that BTW) Don't get me wrong. H is a wonderful father. He reads to them at bedtime on weekends and this last Sat he took S5 to get his haircut and then to the zoo afterwards for a couple of hrs - I was sooooo proud of him! It just eirks me that day-to-day he's thinking "hey, I'm at the house, MIL has the kids in the other room and I get to get my stuff done too" - he is killing 2 birds with 1 stone, but, in my opinion, everyday. I just wish things like Saturday were more the "norm" then the exception. I don't know, maybe if he did what I'm asking then I'd be griping that he was trying to take my "mommy job" - ????? Can we ever be happy?
And SM, you come on down/up (?) to OK, weather is great! And we have plenty of room, pond for fishing, GEL might even let ya ride her boys (okay, I was going to just let that one go to work her up, but it's actually her horses)
Here's an idea I am beginning to try for the worry part for H - this a.m. I left him a sweet lil' note (remember I don't physically see him until the weekend) asking him to list 4 things which made him smile yesterday, noting that W & kids didn't count. I said to really think about it, was it a newspaper article, joke at work, etc. Sooooo, we'll see. I tried this once before but the idea never really took, so to speak. But even MIL mentioned last night that she is starting to get annoyed with him.
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