NYS: Thanks for the reply. I did respond in a positive tone and acknowlwdged WAW's concerns w/o stating an opposing view point and agreed w/her perception of the sitch.
I received a reply clarifying the last point and toning it down a bit.
I feel really good today. This past weekend was D15's b-day. It provided an opportunity for the family to be together. Fri PM D15 & friends had cake & ice cream at home w/WAW. I could tell that WAW was uncomfortable, but I just acted as if this were any other b-day party. On Sat PM I visited the WAW's apt for the 1st time to have cake & ice cream w/WAW & D15 & D13. I remembered to leave before my welcome was worn out. It was uncomfortable, but I focused on D15, b-day.
Interestingly, on Sun PM when WAW brought D's home, she stayed and watched D15 open another gift. Last night WAW came in and sat down to watch TV waiting for D15 to get something for her. This hasn't happened before. I cut short a phone call to sit with them for a few minutes, on the other end of the couch.
I've really tried to be empathetic in listenting to WAW's complaints about taxing D's around, etc. I wonder if this is related.
Just wanted to let everyone know out there know that I had a good day! J
I wanted to post a story that made me feel good this weekend. I visited my brother and his family this past weekend. They took me and D13 to a neighbor's 40th birthday party. At the party I was talking to the hostess about my sitch. The same thing happened to her when she was 13. Mom walked out to be w/a man from their church. She said that her Dad went to pieces and spoke badly of Mom.
I told her about what I've learned from DB'ing and the other books I've read, she said I was heroic. YIKES! I must not have told her enough about the back-sliding I've done. Anyway to hear about the sitch from the D13 point of view really helped me suck up some of the feelings that I've had. Some days it is difficult not to unleash in front of the D's, but I still realize that the D's need a healthy relationship w/WAW regardless of WAW's feelings.
Thanks to all the DB heroes out there who pick each other up each day.
Need some help here. Been in the LRT for 3 months now and haven't seen any visible improvement. I know patience are a virtue but I haven't been feeling very virtuous this week. I know the usual DB response will be to go do something good for myself, but sometimes it just feels like a temporary fix and then the "high" is gone and it's back to reality. I know someone will comment that I am giving too much power to WAW & OM. I know that I should not let them dictate my mood. I also know that I hate parts of my life right now and to quote Tom Petty, "The waiting is the hardest part." All the 180's that I've done, now look at me and seem to laugh because they have not changed the sitch. When I look at them, all they do is remind me why I did them in the first place. I did it not so much for me, but because of the sitch. I would not have done some of them if it weren't for the sitch. The thing I really want to do for myself is first to find out what the heck is so unappealing about me, but I can't ask because that is "pursuing". So I feel like I am looking at the wizard up on the screen, when all the time I know he is behind the curtain and at times I feel stupid for even believing that what's up on the screen is worth believing in, because it isn't real.
Need some help here. Been in the LRT for 3 months now and haven't seen any visible improvement. I know patience are a virtue but I haven't been feeling very virtuous this week. I know the usual DB response will be to go do something good for myself
Another "DB response" is to monitor for results, and if results aren't attained try something else. Going dark isn't a magic bullet, and it's by no means a strict rule. You need to modify what you're doing.
I don't really have a handle on your sitch so as to know what's really going on.
I know someone will comment that I am giving too much power to WAW & OM. I know that I should not let them dictate my mood.
That "someone" is you this time around!
All the 180's that I've done, now look at me and seem to laugh because they have not changed the sitch. When I look at them, all they do is remind me why I did them in the first place. I did it not so much for me, but because of the sitch. I would not have done some of them if it weren't for the sitch.
You have to do them for you, otherwise they're not genuine. Maybe that comes through to her?
The thing I really want to do for myself is first to find out what the heck is so unappealing about me, but I can't ask because that is "pursuing".
Maybe that depends on how you go about it? Maybe if you tell her that you want to know what drove her away, so that you can work on yourself for yourself, and so that you don't continue making the same mistakes in your next relationship and so could really use her insights on you, would be the way to ask? That way, it doesn't come off as you're asking her what's wrong with you so as to make changes for the purpose of getting her back.
Maybe if you tell her that you want to know what drove her away, so that you can work on yourself for yourself, and so that you don't continue making the same mistakes in your next relationship and so could really use her insights on you, would be the way to ask?
Great idea NYS! I've been struggling on how to get this info and by George I think you've got it! Regardless of how this relationship ends up, I NEVER want to go through this again. I want to take all that I learned from DR and KLA, and customize it to me. I want to know what was so unappealing about me and use the DR/KLA ideas to continue changing me.
OK, and when she opens up and tells you all about it, don't argue, don't defend yourself, don't point out what she's overlooking... just listen and take notes and let her talk.
Right after my breakup, my WAW came back to pick up some things, and while here, we got into that conversation. I was totally open to hear whatever she had to say, and she opened up. She was never as communicative as she was on that day. I swear, as she spoke, light bulbs went on and I could see enough to connect all the dots for the first time.
Quote: No doubt you have been working on making the changes, has she noticed? If so, what was her reaction? If not, how do you point them out w/out pursuing?
The context of my situation is that she moved out and lives with the OM. Now she lives 130 miles away from me, OK? So people all the time, how does she see any changes if she's not there with you? That crosses everybody's mind.
Well, it is more of an obstacle if they're not there to notice changes. On the other hand, the WAS not seeing you every day makes any changes all the more noticeable when they do see you. It's like how we don't see our mates getting older if we see them every day, but notice the change in someone we only see from time to time.
At first, I made the classic mistake of announcing my changes, telling her I've changed and how so. Here's what I noticed happens with that. You think you've earnestly communicated that you've changed. My WAW seemed to have believed me. But then, there were a few times when I'd say something about something I did (not about announcing changes, just in conversation with her about what I'm up to nowadays, that sort of thing) and her reaction would be, "Wow! You really have changed!". That sort of inflection on her part signaled to me that she may have been dubious about my changes and/or the extent of them, though she had previously verbalized that she believed I had changed. Actions speak louder than words here. Also, WASs are reasonably skeptical that announced changes after the bomb is dropped are a ploy to get them back, and any such changes they fear may be short lived and they are understandably reluctant therefore to get back into a relationship they just left without the assurance that the changes are real. Announcing changes doesn't make them real. Living the changes for some time to show genuine change and consistency is real.
I'll tell you something else. You don't "point them out". You just make genuine changes that are needed. Be honest with yourself, real honest. Brutal even. Rip out those things that cause hurt in others. Cultivate those traits and qualities that nurture and embrace and bring positives into your life. Make them habitual. Practice them all the time on everyone you come into contact with, not just your WAW. It's not good to be a caring, loving person in regard to only one other human being; to be a truly caring person, one must be caring to all.An artist does not learn to paint in order to paint one painting, nor he does he wait until the right painting comes along to learn how to paint. This is an art as well, the art of loving.
When you do adopt a more caring, loving, compassionate view of the world, I believe, it will spill over unknowingly into other facets of your being and behavior and thoughts and words so that you may be completely oblivious to how you are now different in those other respects, but someone else can easily pick out the differences that now seem as normal as breathing to you.
So now, having met up a few times and continuing to do meet up, yes, I think she notices more changes than I think she does. I know she's observing me, she's inferred that, perhaps unknowingly, in her emails to me. The next step is, while continuing always trying to improve myself, that time be given for her to see the changes are genuine and consistent. And again, this isn't for her. This is for me.
NYS: I asked WAW to do me a favor and help me with some insight into myself as to what made her lose interest or drove her away. Ths answer came back as apathy or at least what she interpreted as apathy. There was also some push back that I interpreted as either 1) don't bother changing for me because I'm gone OR 2) I'm not changing for you because I'm so happy now.
I replied and thanked her for her input and said that I would be seeking input from others so that I could get a well-rounded view of how others see me.
Funny thing, the day I sent the email, she replied and then came over to help D13 study. She was there during the dinner hour, but I didn't offer dinner. Is there a corrolation?
I've been analyzing her reply. I didn't think that I was apathetic, I thought that she was, but that doesn't matter, what matters is her perception. So what is it that made me seem apathetic? Going to night school? Working 60hr weeks? Both of those are over done with. I never went out w/the guys. She has said that I am a loving father, and she has left the D's w/me so I'm guessing that I'm not an apathetic father.
So my question is where can I go from here. It seems hard to be interested in WAW w/o her feeling like I'm pursuing. I was hartened that she replied and that she indentified something. I'm putting this in my solution journal so that I can continue to chew on this. Any input would be appreciated.
