Jabez, you know I'm at odds with your plan, and I feel your course of action and associated focus is contributing to your anger. I don't know why you contacted the OM's mom, all it did was contribute a bleak picture for you. Additionally, it will get back to the OM and your WAW, and they likely will feel you're invading and snooping by having contacted her.
To lift out of your anger, you need to stop the focus on the OM. You're concentrating on a symptom rather than the disease.
I am frustrated that I can't talk to W about this and tell her what I've learned.
Words won't do it, anyway. Action is what counts. Consistent action showing those changes over the course of time. No contact with the WAS does not mean the changes will go unnoticed forever. Circumstances change, and there likely could be possibilities for contact going forward. During those encounters, it will be imperative that you display a PMA and that your changed behaviors have become second nature to you. Then, following those contacts, she will have the "new you" to reflect on.
I'll give you a scenario to ponder on. Right now, because of your talking to the OM's mom, she likely has a negative reaction to your having done so, if she's a typical WAS. The OM is probably adding to that by also dissing you. And as sweet as his mom may have seemed to be, you don't know if she's also painting a negative picture of you to them, as blood is thicker than water. So, if that's the case, that's what your WAS will be thinking of you as you move along in time. That does not work towards your goal of demonstrating changes. She is thinking that you haven't changed. But by eliminating that type of behavior, the checking up on the OM type of behavior, THAT change will likely be noticed, conspicuous by its absence.
I agree that going to the OM mom may not be the thing to do. She will report back to him and then he can say "See? Your h is trying to make trouble, whats the deal with going to my family" However, I DO understand why you did it. You want EVERYONE possible to know what this guy helped do your R, right? In most cases just backing off and let them go about their R can help you more in the long run. Did you say you were D already? Well, the lesson I had to learn as well, is that it is none of my business any more. Nothing says I don't want you and stay the heck out of my life like a divorce decree. And while I still seem to CRAVE info on my xH, especially if its bad news about him and OW, that doesn't get me any closer to my goal- happiness, success, and a healthy loving realtionship . Plus , cause my XH KNOWS I still love him, and would love to have our M back again, he kinds "checks" once in a while when we do see each other by lookimg forlorn and wanting to hug or kiss me. I also get little bits of info about what he is doing. Very little bits. Example: he went to bike week, got a traffice ticket going to a famous hot spot. I laughed about the ticket and his taking traffic school. I never asked if he had a good time at the place cause I don't want to know-he went with her, it was something we were planning to go do, she got to go instead. Why torture myself? I deal enough with comparisons of OW and myself, and her life with my XH! Its something I am trying to stop. I also agree with NY if you can stop contact altogether, she may find a reason to contact YOU!
Ok, a question for NY: You stated that circumstances change, and there may be possibity of contact going forward.Good. I am still working on my changes. How will he ever know anything if I don't see him. The only way I think it'll be is through his Mom or his sister (I stay in contact with them both, they are really great to me, and seem to be pushing me to pass that realtors exam, it seems that they are wanting to be able to tell h this info when it happens...- Ow has been talked up by H as to how smart and good with numbers she is, blah blah blah, yet MIl and SIL seem to think she is no smarter or wiser than the average OW ) H was pretty much used to me being in a good mood, and I have been successful in presenting excellent PMA (one backslide- i made a comment that he could stay in touch if he wanted, but may not be allowed.He changed the subject really fast, asking me about my car!) A while back you suggested that after a reasonable amount of time to contact him just to say hi and see about maybe catching up at lunch. Does this still apply if i know he is living with her? I don't want to be percieved as that x=wife that just can't let go. Little bit of bent pride there too, why go after someone who obviously doesn't want to be with me? Yet the little signals say I am testing to see if you want me. Do you agree with what my Mom said about cutting off all contact- period? I may have to contact for that tax check, but thats all. I am tempted so many times to just send and e-mail, jokes, or pics, or text him to say hi, but I haven't. I'd also love to do it when i KNOW he is with her to let her see what it feels like , but I know thats just woman scorned behavior. How do YOU do it? I know you are excellent at not thinking of OM and her, and you hardly see her as well.How do you resist the temptation? I have 30 years with him, its kinda hard to just turn it off, especially if I feel that there may be one drop of a R left or hope for a future R.
How will he ever know anything if I don't see him.
Some info may get back to him through mutual friends, family. Other than that, there may be occasion to see him in the future.
A while back you suggested that after a reasonable amount of time to contact him just to say hi and see about maybe catching up at lunch. Does this still apply if i know he is living with her? I don't want to be percieved as that x=wife that just can't let go.
You can't help what other people wish to perceive. But anyway, catching up with each other isn't the kind of action that makes someone seem as if they can't let go. Always calling, stalking, sending gifts, messages, that's the sort of stuff of not-let-go-ness, isn't it?
why go after someone who obviously doesn't want to be with me? Yet the little signals say I am testing to see if you want me. Do you agree with what my Mom said about cutting off all contact- period?
Are you saying his actions indicate that now that you're dark, he's curious?
I am tempted so many times to just send and e-mail, jokes, or pics, or text him to say hi, but I haven't. I'd also love to do it when i KNOW he is with her to let her see what it feels like
A whack upon you. You're really trying to get your mind freed from that thinking, aren't you?
How do YOU do it? I know you are excellent at not thinking of OM and her, and you hardly see her as well.How do you resist the temptation?
What temptation?
Today marks one year from my last DDay. Happy anniversary to me. I haven't contacted her since I don't know when, but she last emailed me on March 23. No contact since then. Still playing that blinking game. Now that their relationship is about to enter its second year, the odds are that it's fizzlesation chances run higher. I do plan on sending her an ecard around her mom's birthday in May, because her mom passed away a few years ago and I know how sullen she becomes on that day, and it's a good way to validate her from afar with something sweet, unromantic and simple. Then I'll see what happens next.
I have 30 years with him, its kinda hard to just turn it off, especially if I feel that there may be one drop of a R left or hope for a future R.
The future is unknown, but live as if he's not a part of it and move forward. Moving forward doesn't mean the door closes. The door closes when one of you are either dead or you've decided to close the door.
Quote: I don't know why you contacted the OM's mom, all it did was contribute a bleak picture for you. Additionally, it will get back to the OM and your WAW, and they likely will feel you're invading and snooping by having contacted her.
I didn't contact her, she contacted me, so it's not like I sought her out to tell her to get her son away from my W. She was sick of being lied to by her son and wanted to learn what I knew. I see her every week in church, she has known me for 8 years.
Quote: You're concentrating on a symptom rather than the disease.
Your right, the OM is the symptom, not the disease. Actually hearing mom's story has revealed one of my character flaws to me. From a distance, I see that I had the same relationship w/WAW as she has w/OM. Hearing their story made me realize that is was also our story. Something for me to work on.
I've been dark since Feb 2 (save for communication about taxes and kids). Most times when I'm around her (drop off & pick up of kids) I smile and act happy. W's need that OM fills is TIME. He has it being a school teacher and living in an apartment only seeing his D every other weekend. Ironincally time is my ally. OM's Mom is very upset that WAW calls him so often. W has come between them. Sooner or later OM will need some breathing space and then . . . ?
Quote: The OM is probably adding to that by also dissing you.
I happend to bump into him a few weeks ago. I asked him about hobbies and his D and how school was going. Really just pleasant small talk. Nothing angry or about WAW. Just like we did before this happened.
Quote: And as sweet as his mom may have seemed to be, you don't know if she's also painting a negative picture of you to them, as blood is thicker than water.
OM's Mom was very grateful that I talked to her. She had a lot to get off her chest (vent anger at WAW) and questions she wanted truthfully answered. Her overall message to me was that she was tired of being lied to.
Quote: I DO understand why you did it. You want EVERYONE possible to know what this guy helped do your R, right?
Not quite. She contacted me. She had questions she wanted answered and I obliged, truthfully. She wanted to confirm lies. She wanted to vent anger at what WAW has done to her R w/son.
Quote: Did you say you were D already?
No, I said that I feel like I have to "act as if" we were D. The papers are here, but just gathering dust.
Quote: I deal enough with comparisons of OW and myself
There's really no comparison here. He fills WAW's need for availablility. He's home early everyday from school, has no lawn to mow or kids to spend time w/ (save for every other weekend). WAW has him all to herself. I work more hours, am taking care of the house by myself and live w/D's so I have less free time. I have enough character & integrity to not mess w/a married woman. There's really no comparison here.
Quote: there may be possibity of contact going forward.
This is where I disagree w/NYS. Maybe's and possibilities aren't setting realistic, concrete, achievable goals. I really don't want my life planned around maybe's and possibilities. If I were the fly on the wall I can't see maybe's and possibilities. I set a goal of more contact so I plan contact by "happening to take out the trash" when W drops off D's. Gives me a chance to help unload D's stuff from the car and poke my head in, smile and say Hi, then go back inside.
Sorry Jabez, you hadn't specified that the OM's mom sought you out and contacted you. I misunderstood.
This is where I disagree w/NYS. Maybe's and possibilities aren't setting realistic, concrete, achievable goals...
Here's where you misunderstood me. I never said "maybes". There are very realistic, concrete and achievable contacts that are possible, is the fuller meaning of my words to Sportster. The context in which she asked about that was in regards to may having told her she could establish contact with H from time to time using several different reasons. In other words, she will create those possibilities.
So, you now have "realistic, concrete, achievable goals"? Great! What are they? Because in all honesty, the goals you laid out in your February post seemed improbable to me, but I already mentioned that to you. So your strategy/plans have changed since then? Anything noteworthy to share?
Now that I reread my post, I see that I left out important pieces of info. I apologize.
My plan is still to remain in the LRT, but not to be as dark by increasing "incidental" contact. We exchange email almost daily about D's. I want face-to-face contact at least once a week. Normally WAW drops off D's and leaves w/o getting out of the car, so once a week, when I see headlights, I take out the trash or take the dog out, just to be there, smile, say Hi and welcome the D's home. When I have a gig, I ask if she wants more time w/D's if it's not convenient for her, I find someone else, no trade offs, just extra time. First time I did this she was surprised, maybe confused.
Both D's birthdays are in the spring, so I have made it a point to be upbeat, happy and make the family time together as fun as possible w/the spotlight on the birthday girl. You know, "act as if" that 300 lbs elephant isn't sitting there.
Today, D13 is getting an award. W&I will be there. I will be happy and supportive, shining the light on D13.
I've been working on me too. I've been going to a comedy workshop to work on a stand up routine (a 180, something totally new). I've fantasized about writing for a sitcom or Letterman, but I'm not serious about it. The band I occasionally play in is planning on cutting a CD (not a 180 but a resumption of what I used to do). I planning on buying a new bike for the summer and really getting serious about that (again not a 180 but a resumption of what I used to do). After all that, D's, house, work and the dogs, there is not much time left. But I recently have discovered something I contributed to our problems, but at this time, I don't know what to do about it. I need to think about this and talk to my C, because it's not me (like addiction or obsession), but how I interacted w/W (not controlling), and she isn't here, I don't know how to "work on" that.
Jabez, you sound great and right on track. Good work. I can relate to what you're doing. I've been singing more and more around town, even if it's just karaoke, to meet people, have fun singing and the kudos are nice too. Then I'm also slowly getting into acting, taking a class soon with some director here in NYC.
I believe following your passions and interests not only enhances one as a person but since it makes one's life more interesting and unique, serves to possibly make their life attractive and appealing to the WAS, who then seeing these shiny new things may get curious and want to come closer and be a part of the fun.
The contacts you initiate are exactly along the lines of the possible types of contacts I espoused to Sportster. Just have to be careful though that a "chance" encounter taking out the garbage, for instance doesn't, become obvious.
NYS, I'm coming to you w/this because you&I have thought differently in the past and I don't want a "yes man" answer.
I just received an email from W criticizing me & D. Essentially, W says that D's & I are still in denial about W never coming back. D13 told her that she would rather have false hope than no hope. "False hope" is an expression W uses. W says that this thought is so unhealthy that it worries her. W says that she's made a decision to stop trying to protect D's from phone conversations, letters, reading material and doing certain things for them. They need to see her life since all they get is my view of things.
At one time my first reaction would be to defend myself, but not now. I am concerned that W's obsession w/OM will adversely affect D's and certainly affect her relationship w/D's, but there is nothing I can do about that. I could warn her, but that would fall upon deaf ears and throw more kerosene on the file. Should I not respond? Or should I acknowledge receiving the email and thank her for sharing her feelings? Your ideas are appreciated.
All WASs use that term appropriately. Since they believe, at the moment, that they're never returning, they do not wish to encourage the thought that they will in others.
W says that this thought is so unhealthy that it worries her
We validate our WAS's thoughts and feelings. This is a legitimate concern of your W's.
W says that she's made a decision to stop trying to protect D's from phone conversations, letters, reading material and doing certain things for them. They need to see her life since all they get is my view of things.
You and I know that it's not mentally healthy for a young child to be privy to these aspects of the adult world.
At one time my first reaction would be to defend myself, but not now. I am concerned that W's obsession w/OM will adversely affect D's and certainly affect her relationship w/D's
You've mentioned this concern before; how W's involvement with the OM will lead to this or that. I think you're still too focused on them, and so, handing them a lot of power over you. Ultimately, whatever your W does and how it impacts her relationship with D is out of your hands.
I could warn her, but that would fall upon deaf ears and throw more kerosene on the file. Should I not respond? Or should I acknowledge receiving the email and thank her for sharing her feelings? Your ideas are appreciated.
My thoughts are that with something like this, one acknowledges and validates the concerns of the WAS. Find points of agreement therein, and establish some common ground. For example, you both wish to do whatever is most beneficial for D, that you both wish to put aside personal differences for the sake of the child, etc.
From there, I think there is a need to address the issue of D witnessing details as they occur. There's a fair amount of material concerning children and divorce, and you may wish to get somewhat acquainted with it, so as to get some ideas as to what course of conduct from the parents would be most beneficial, and put those forth as suggestions to the WAS, in seeking a mutually agreeable way of beneficially handling this. Good luck.
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