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Men do that as much as women. I know i've done it myself.

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CeMar,

This isn't a slam against you...but you APPEAR to be doing the same thing. Heardening your heart that is...is it making your M any better?

GEL


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lacknlv,

Either I missed your post in response to my question about changing some of the things you do, in regards to your W...or you didn't respond to it.

I really am wondering, what do you think about it? Letting your face & actions reflect what you feel inside, that is. Since you and my H seem to have many similarities I'm trying to find out just exactly how difficult this may be for him. I really do believe if you can bring yourself to do this it may make a difference for you.

GEL


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GEL Hmm I guess I missed that response sorry.

Well it’s hard to say my face will reflect my emotion, after 40 years of training it is not easy to change

I am re-committing myself to an open discussion this weekend. I’ve been in a down period which translates into cordial and polite but begrudging conversations. I kissed her goodbye this morning and she was quite shocked. Sad commentary.

After much soul searching and input from this thread I am “gearing up” to talk to her. My goal is to follow what you and MrsNOP said and lay it all out there in a way I’ve never done before. I guess this will be what I would consider extreme emotional purging, at least for me. If she doesn’t catch on after that then I guess I’ll need someone from here to fly in and give me lessons…

Thanks for all the help, it’s been eye opening.

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lacknlvn,

Thanks! I figured you missed that post, it happens

Obviously I can't guarantee it will work for you, but I can't impress upon you the feeling that went through me when I saw the pain in my H's eyes as his lightbulb went on and he realized what pain he'd been causing me.

That was the 1st time (fleeting as it was) that I had ever seen him show some emotion that corresponded with his words. It felt wonderful and horrible at the same time. Wonderful that I could see he could show emotion, horrible that I saw the pain because I wanted to take it away.

Best of luck w/this...I know you can do this...my H is in his 40's too

GEL


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Choc,
Here's something for ya:

My H has said, too many times to count now, how glad he is that we've improved our R. That he didn't realize what had become of us but he's glad that I recognized it and did something about it.
He was content with what we had and wasn't aware of how much better it could be...you know how some people say, Oh marriage just gets stale once you get older/once you have kids and that's that. Well, that was his opinion also.

Perhaps your W is one of those people. She is content with how it is and doesn't realize how much better it could be. She doesn't KNOW what she's missing out on, in terms of everything that's inside you..how much more she could get from you and with you if she'd allow this side of you to flourish. So to expect her to get it and want that in a way that is tangible to you is probably not going to happen. She's content with the status quo, although I doubt she would say she's blissfully happy. Contentment has a way of lulling us into mundane acceptance of the not-quite-good-enough, kwim?

Also, I think some people need the "I will fight for you and for this M" dynamic going on to really get them fired up about doing something and taking on a change of this proportion. I know that my H was truly surprised at how deeply and strongly I felt about him and our marriage. He assumed that my feelings matched his...a content acceptance bordering on nonchalance. He was surprised and this feeling stirred up his old feelings; he was able to recapture the old feelings he had for me. Nowadays, as I said, he would not trade this for ANYTHING. He regrets those years we spent not feeling this way about each other.

At this point it doesn't matter who "started" the process and who forced it to continue, only that it is here; it sounds Pollyanna-ish but it's true.

Food for thought.

xo

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Quote:

Perhaps your W is one of those people. She is content with how it is and doesn't realize how much better it could be. She doesn't KNOW what she's missing out on, in terms of everything that's inside you..how much more she could get from you and with you if she'd allow this side of you to flourish. So to expect her to get it and want that in a way that is tangible to you is probably not going to happen.




Honey,

First, thanks for the only hug and kiss I'll probably get today.

Second, no, it's NOT possible that she doesn't realize how it could be. Or what she's missing out on. Or how much more she could get from me. Because we lived this way for two years before our children were born, and for several (albeit steadily-dwindling) periods in years thereafter!

We lived this way for almost two months, four years ago!

This is what I struggle with! She KNOWS what it's like to have a marriage like that, and she KNOWS how important it is to me. She's SEEN my intense pain, and she KNOWS how this is killing me (or at least, has killed me in the past, as "nonchalance" has become by veneer by now).

She knows ALL of that. But she won't DO anything about it. She won't go see a C. She won't initiate. She won't even give me a freaking back or head scratch, something she KNOWS I adore!

How am I supposed to process that realization, other than "I guess I'm not important to you."

Choc.

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Quote:

choolateeyes:

I experience this too. Women can harden their hearts in a poor relationship. When they feel their relationship is poor, they get FURTHER away, thinking that this will protect themselves. So they start doing things that will actually make the marriage worse. I don't understand why they would do this, but they do.




CeMar, my brother, I suspect that -- by now -- you and I are doing this as well.

Choc.

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Choc,

Have you said this to her? "I guess I'm not important to you."

When my H and I first started C'ing....I was able to verbalize to my H that I didn't feel like a priority to him, I didn't feel that he viewed me as important at all. When it was put this way it was a complete shock to him that I thought this....it wasn't that way at all in his mind.

Just curious, stating that to my hubby made a BIG impact on him. I literally listed what I thought his top 3 priorities were...and I wasn't in that little list...in fact I think I was lucky to make top 5.

GEL


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Quote:

Choc,

Have you said this to her? "I guess I'm not important to you."




Yes, altho I don't CONTINUALLY say it, as she has said that it only puts MORE "pressure" on her. She got offended and angry, pointing out all the things that she does do for me, and saying "If I didn't love you, would I still be here?" I tried pointing out the difference between love/affection and mere devoted LOYALTY, at least from my perspective, but I guess I got nowhere.

I guess I keep coming back to the exact same circle-logic: everyone here says "say this, and do that," and a few of us are "But I HAVE said that, and I DO do that ... she knows EXACTLY how I feel and where I stand ... and it never gets any better ... and it hurts to stay in that place."

So we go the celibate route, where the day-to-day is easier.

Chick$[censored], I know, but it's where I am.

Choc.

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