Quote: The one thing that may have gotten through is understanding in a heartfelt way how much my H was hurting over this issue. Do your wives have any clue how much pain you're in? Would you allow them to read some of your posts? Because when it comes down to it, I never understood what the big deal was about sex when I was feeling LD, and my H is not one to show emotional angst. I wish your wives could read your thoughts...you express yourselves so well on this BB.
IHJ,
Yes, my wife is totally aware of the pain her distance has caused me. We have cried over it, prayed about it, and I've poured my heart out to her on more than one occasion. The most recent was four years ago, when I told her I would rather get a separation than continue to live in a sexless marriage. Like others' experiences on this board, that threat of leaving was the catalyst for some real heartfelt change in her, but they were short-lived (less than two months) and soon the old, LD wife reappeared.
I have also poured my very soul and innermost self out to her in long e-mails and IM exchanges over the years. So while I KNOW this isn't easy for her (and this Board has really helped me to empathize with the LDW mindset), she CAN'T write it off to "Oh my gosh, I never knew!"
I thought it was pretty emotional and no my face doesn’t show much emotion. I believe she understands that this is important to me and I have told her (verbally and in writing) that it hurts me and is important to me. I know she feels bad that we don’t LM. Most recently she replied to a question about why we haven’t with “I’ve not felt like it and you’ve not pushed the issue”. I’ve not pushed the issue since 1) I don’t want to seem needy and 2) I thought she might want some room from the regular sex discussions 3) sympathy sex has zero appeal nowadays.
The counselor we saw mentioned that I shouldn’t worry about telling her things (my thoughts and feeling) that make her cry…I’ve not ever really got my hands around that one…does that kind of fit with what your thinking?
Same here Choc and I’ve reached a point where I don’t really want to talk about it with her anymore. I don’t want to be optimistic. We’ve had may starts and even more stops and each time I feel like my ability to handle the stops has decreased. The highs associated get lower and the lows get even lower. So why do something that is only going to bring me to rock bottom? Gloomy stuff.
Quote: Same here Choc and I’ve reached a point where I don’t really want to talk about it with her anymore. I don’t want to be optimistic. We’ve had may starts and even more stops and each time I feel like my ability to handle the stops has decreased. The highs associated get lower and the lows get even lower. So why do something that is only going to bring me to rock bottom? Gloomy stuff.
No offense, but I would have thought NOPkins fit the bill nicely as-is, no C required. In my book, manly men don't have deep meaningful discussions, get it when they want it, and eschew BBs.
Scratch their balls in public AND spit on the sidewalk, too?
Quote:
Now let me turn it around. Let's say I want a womanly women. Cook my dinner, have my kids, clean my clothes, give me hot S whenever I want it on my terms. You know, a real woman. No offense of course. Wait! I'm a warrior, what do I care?
You forgot barefoot! There must be barefoot.
I wasn't meaning to tick anyone off. Just sharing my perceptions. Which seem to have some foundation both religious and scientific. Religiously, there is that whole "man is the head of the household" thing. And then science tells us about alpha-male behavior and how females respond to it.
I think men get a bum rap. I get absolutely incensed when I see (I seldom watch network tv somewhat because of this) commercials and/or sitcoms presenting men as ineffectual buffoons. I also detest seeing women emasculate their husbands verbally.
I think men get lost when they look for their identity from their women.
---------- commercials and/or sitcoms presenting men as ineffectual buffoons. I also detest seeing women emasculate their husbands verbally. ------------
My W does the above and laughs. I told her how I see the commercials as man bashing and if the roles were reversed where the women were made to look like fools she, the NOW, and ERA people would be over them like smoke over fire.
Here's another shot from my perspective as a woman...
Quote: I thought it was pretty emotional and no my face doesn’t show much emotion. I believe she understands that this is important to me and I have told her (verbally and in writing) that it hurts me and is important to me.
My H doesn't show his emotions on his face...I was sooo relieved to find he could show them outwardly the 1st time in counseling that he saw how deeply he'd hurt me....I saw that pain reflected on his face. That was an emotion I could buy & relate to.
It's very hard for me (and I'm only saying this from my perspective, not for women in general) to believe my H feels a certain way if his expression/actions don't correspond or backup what he's saying.
To be quite frank, he often simply appears cold on the outside. I know he has feelings that run deep, but the outside looks stoic and cold, although to give him credit he is working on this and beginning to do much better. It's so nice now to see him loosen up a bit and know I don't always have to guess.
Quote: But I do want someone who is going to stand up for me, who will make me feel protected & safe, someone who shows me he loves me not by what he gives me materially, but by what he does.
I have never been a big holiday, gifty sort of person. Unless the holiday involves tons of family, big dinners/get togethers, and lots of visiting. I've always been much more sensitive to daily interactions as opposed to special day stuff.
But, Lass, you and I may be abnormal when it comes to gift goodies.
My MIL was a real piece of work (may she rest in peace and I did eventually become her favorite daughter-in-law).
The first time NOP took me to meet her, her attempted relationship-voodoo was to pointedly ignore me; make sure I saw pics of NOP's richer, still preferred former girlfriend; all mixed liberally with outright rudeness. As we got up to leave, NOP let her know politely that what she had just done was not acceptable and that he would not subject me to such treatment again in the near future.
And we were just dating at the time.
Throughout our ordeal, NOP and I still had a core of mutual respect for each other, although we went through times when we didn't like each other very much.
If respect is lost or missing in a marriage, I almost think that it *must* be acknowledged and dealt with along with the sexual issues for there to be any real, permanent progress.
I agree, we are probably the exception and not the norm...which is why I made sure to state what I was saying was from my perspective I know I do tend to be the odd woman out at times, but I'm proud of that fact...it's part of my character
I also agree with you about the mutual respect. Were you making a comment toward me that I unintentionally missed on that...or was that a comment in general on the topic? Because I do absolutey agree with you on that.
My H and I do respect each other. I know he would stick up for me as MrNOPkins did for you, which by the way...KUDOS to you MrNOPkins! I feel it's imperative to know that your spouse would stand up for you in that way. I know my H would, the problem is...he does this when I don't know, so I hear about it second-hand. He is working on this though. I've explained to him that everyone I know (that he's talked to) knows how he feels about me because he tells them, but he doesn't ever tell me. He's working on this
I really want to thank both you and MrNOPkins...it's really nice to be able to get opinions & POV from both sides, it's really very helpful!
