Fran, How should he get around the fact that she will view these things as only a way to get sex? Cause, after all, that is exactly what he's doing..trying to woo her back into a sex life.
I think this approach sounds good..and quite frankly, he should be doing nice things for his wife anyway..but I don't know that it will make her want SEX with him again anytime soon. She will view it as a ploy, ya know?
I don't know but I do know that just grabbing her all the time will not work. OK she's not stupid she knows that he wants sex but he needs to make her feel like she wants to do what he wants. He has to stop being so needy about it because that will be turning her off big time. I am sorry but I haven't read all of CeMar's threads so I don't really know the history. I guess Mrs CeMar is hanging tough at the moment.
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
It isnt quite that easy, CeMar andI ar in similar situations. Over the years I have been very romantic, not just in a 'Valentines Day, Birthday' kind of way but all the time, leaving notes, simple gestures, grand shows, the whole works. I'm not just saying this to pat my self on the back but friends of my W have told her how special I am, and a friend of mine told me 'stop it, my W told me to be more like HdSocal, you are making me look bad'. Some of my threads detail the things I have tried.
Do I do these in an attempt to get sex, no... but... I do them to help foster a healthy relationship that does include desire and passion, in addition to sex. Here is the problem, without recieving the passion and desire, these efforts start to become an effort in frustration, and are seen by the other person as attempts just to have sex. I
Sounds familiar HDsocal. You might start out doing these things because you want to, because they come from the heart but as you continue to treat the LD in a positive and romantic manner you notice that your needs are not being meet. In fact I’ve found that over time there developed an inverse relationship. The more romantic I became (and this includes the many times where I was doing it simply to express my love) the less frequent our LM became. So you start asking yourself what did I do wrong, am I that repulsive etc and you start focusing on “doing” so you can get. I’m guessing this comes across as manipulative to the spouse and they further shut down. I don’t know what the answer is, but I’ve run into that wall many times myself.
This has absolutely been my experience as well. I believe that the more romantic the romantic spouse becomes (and this theory could be extended to include the more CHORES the more contributing spouse does), this then simply becomes the new expectation, the new "floor" below which the other spouse expects you not to go. And when you DO go below that expectation (and we all have bad days), you get your head bit off with "what's wrong with YOU?"
I firmly believe that the less romantic, less-contributing Neanderthal who occasionally does a little sumpin'-sumpin' to exceed those expectations gets treated better than the helpful romantic that's consistent, sad to say.
Without is sounding adversarial, I have a theory that helps understand most interactions that people have. It is called the ‘Principal of Least Interest’ Simply the party with the least interest has all of the power in a relationship.
This works for everything from buying a car, to dating, to sex in a relationship. Think about it.
Sounds familiar, I guess there are two options in this situation. Continue with the romantic attempts while having your needs rarely fulfilled or do things the way you want to (romantic or not) and have your needs rarely fulfilled. While I may be cynical and jaded to it all the only real option is to do my own thing. What am I missing? I feel I’m myopic and missing something.
Is this the same principal of "He Who Cares the Least, Wins"?
I'm familiar with it, and you're right -- it "works." If, by "works," you mean you can get a desired outcome. But I also learned in a management seminar once that "There's a difference between commitment and compliance , and I think this principal -- when applied to a R and to ML in particular -- would only lead to compliance.
I also have to look at myself in the mirror at the end of a day. I do the romantic things for my wife, and help with the household chores, because I want to be a good person and I know she likes them. I've long since determined that they're not going to lead to sex, but they're still the right things to do.
Quote: Sounds familiar, I guess there are two options in this situation. Continue with the romantic attempts while having your needs rarely fulfilled or do things the way you want to (romantic or not) and have your needs rarely fulfilled. While I may be cynical and jaded to it all the only real option is to do my own thing. What am I missing? I feel I’m myopic and missing something.
I believe you have to do what is genuine. If you are a genuinely romantic person, and you enjoy doing it, irrespective of the response you get from your wife, then continue to do it. If it really bothers you that she doesn't respond, or even seem to APPRECIATE it, then to continue to do these things would be artificial and violate your itegrity, it would seem to me.
Quote: Sounds familiar, I guess there are two options in this situation. Continue with the romantic attempts while having your needs rarely fulfilled or do things the way you want to (romantic or not) and have your needs rarely fulfilled. While I may be cynical and jaded to it all the only real option is to do my own thing. What am I missing? I feel I’m myopic and missing something.
I believe you have to do what is genuine. If you are a genuinely romantic person, and you enjoy doing it, irrespective of the response you get from your wife, then continue to do it. If it really bothers you that she doesn't respond, or even seem to APPRECIATE it, then to continue to do these things would be artificial and violate your itegrity, it would seem to me.
