More journalling, so I can sort of get things straight in my head... I don't advise you all working on your M to read this. I'm not looking for advice, just trying to keep my sanity. I still feel like I'm beating a dead horse. More and more each day.
Today started ok. H actually came and ate breakfast with us, at least came down before the kids left the table. The kids went outside for a while, when they came in, we had hot chocolate and coffee together, light banter, very friendly.
I could tell he was planning something...finally he came and asked if he could talk to me. Sure! H 'What would you think of moving the keyboard down into the living room?' (we have an electronic keyboard in our bedroom, along with an older computer. Original idea was that I could use the midi to do some composing/arranging, but we never did manage to get the midi to work...)
Me 'Um...' A little later he called me into the living room H ' My idea is that down here, you could have both pianos together, and we could hook up the electronic keyboard so that it could be played through the stereo speakers.'
Me 'No.' H 'Why not?' Me ' 'Cause with two pianos in the same room, right now all we'll get is a lot of noise, and the keyboard isn't going to get used any more down here than it does upstairs, will just collect dust and stuff' (H is really the only piano player right now, I have very very very basic skills and the kids play around with it - rather well, but nothing serious yet)
H got annoyed and went upstairs. He started yelling at the kids to take stuff off this desk. I intervened - 'There really isn't any other place for that stuff - does it really have to be taken off my desk?' H'Since when is this your desk??'
(Ok, I just assumed, the computer I used is on it, H uses it to put anything of mine he's found somewhere that annoys him...)
I tried to ask H what he was planning to do with the computer, he just yelled that since I didn't want to talk with him, he wasn't going to tell me. (I did manage very well to HOM)
Me 'I'm sorry, I misunderstood - when did I say I didn't want to talk with you?' H 'You say it all the time - you don't want to communicate with me. I tried to talk with you and you just say 'NO, NO, NO!' OK, then I won't talk with you'
Me 'You asked me my opinion, I gave it. It was no, but I do have a right do disagree, that doesn't mean I don't want to talk with you'
H huffed off, and started moving the old computer next to this one. I got a bit annoyed. 'You can't move that there!'
H yelled 'If you would listen to what I have to say, rather than just yelling at me, you would know what I was doing!'
So I walked away to cool off, went back a little later.
Me 'Can I ask what your plans for the computer are?'
H 'If you wouldn't yell at me, you'd know I wasn't putting it here, I just want to try something. But you just have to yell.'
Me 'I understand you heard me yelling. I'm not now. I'm just curious as to what you are doing'
H 'You've said you don't want to communicate with me' Me 'No, I stated my opinion, but now I'm willing to listen'
H'You say all the time you don't want to talk to me, we have to talk to a counsilor'
Me (OHHHH!!) 'Yes, I have said that. I don't feel comfortable talking to you about our R'
H'I don't want to talk to you about it either. You're always pushing. You can't leave things alone. Then this thing about the councilor. I don't know anything about psychiatrists, the only reason I know anything about them is from American television. Any time there's a little problem, you guys go running to a psychiatrist'
Me'Are you trying to say that we have just 'little' problems?'
H No, but you expect that we'll just talk about stuff and they'll go away tomorrow.
Me No, I don't expect that. H Yes, you do. Me Please don't try to read my mind.
H Well, you're doing that to me, like just now, you thought I meant our problems are little, and a little while ago, you thought you knew what I was doing with the computer. You're always doing that, reading into things.
Me 'I can see where you would feel that way. I did try to ask you.
There was more, I don't remember exact words, but something to the extent that I just push, then he brought up the fight last week, said how he has to think about everything I do now, since I told him that I had intentionally locked the door to hurt him. Again he said how he couldn't understand how I could do that, and how he was so hurt that I could do such a thing.
Finally, I managed to ask him again what he was doing with the computer. H 'I'm just trying to make some order out of this chaos' (here I bit my tongue, knowing it would be just asking for trouble to point out that there were a lot of other things that could be done that would have a much bigger affect on the chaos in this house than moving a few things out of the bedroom...)
I remember this convo ending very badly (I did not raise my voice, even managed to validate H a couple of times), and I felt increadably drained, and really ready to just give up.
I felt as though he managed to point out that I've been horrible towards him, so he sees no point in listening to what I ahve to say, He's not intending on talking about our problems, and he doesn't want to see a councilor. Not to mention that things around here are in chaos.
I read this and could only empathasize with what it must be like living with a CONTROL FREAK! I was able to read several times where you asked questions to clarify what he was saying/doing....and he did something my H used to do....turn around your question around into putting words into his mouth, as if you said he said something, which from what you wrote...isn't what you did. This is a control tactic. To add to that, he will do what he wanted to do anyway...that's my bet at least.
FF, I'm really sorry to say this....but unless he is willing to work on this with you...I don't see how this will work out. It's a horrible situation for you and your children to be in. Your H is VERY Narcassistic....and narcassists can be very good at orchestrating their own demise when things aren't in their complete control.
quote: ----------- I felt as though he managed to point out that I've been horrible towards him, so he sees no point in listening to what I ahve to say, He's not intending on talking about our problems, and he doesn't want to see a councilor. Not to mention that things around here are in chaos. -----------
And there you have the goals of the conversation from the beginning. Let me translate; "Everything is your fault, so I will do nothing."
The problem with validation here, is that it will lead to the opposite side, of a same-sided coin. "I am glad that you agree with me, that you see we need no outside help".
The only suggestion I can make, is that you try to never yell. If he yells, and you don't, then his behavior is spotlighted, not validated.
I know you don't want to hear this, FF, but you really need to seriously consider removing you and the children from this for a while. Have they ever known 'peace' in your home?
For what it is worth, this anonymous stranger, and others just like me here, care what happens to you.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I was going to tell about the convo after this...interesting, again. More of the same, H complaining that I am trying to paint myself as the angel, he as the bad guy.
When he started in again about how he felt so bad that I could do something to hurt him, I pointed out that while what I did was wrong, I did it after he had yelled at me and the kids, and I felt cornered. I also reminded him that the last few convos we have had have taken place with him standing in the doorway blocking my path, and I told him I felt very intimidated by that. He had no recollection of the evening he pushed me and swore at me, and is apparently of the opinion that I am responsible for the day he fell on the floor (he said it was an uncontrollable reaction). I told him that that had made me very scared.
I told him I felt that this was a very unhealthy enviroment for all of us, and unless we could find some way of going forward, I was going to try to find a way for the kids and I to be healthy.
He asked me if I really thought he was so stupid that I thought he didn't realize it was unhealthy, and said, several times, that 'If anyone is going to hurt anyone around here, it's going to be you'. I pointed out to him that I am the one who spends most of the time with the kids, and reminded him that 2 yrs ago I spent 6 weeks alone with them in the States, and I had no need to even raise my voice the whole time.
I asked him what he would need to be able to feel comfortable enough to work on this. He said he didn't know.
To be honest, I'm not even sure that convo was a good idea. I did raise my voice slightly, at one point where he said that if he really had acted that way, it was because I had taught him to be that way, and I pointed out that No one ever deserved to be pushed, yelled at or insulted the way he has acted towards me. He lectured me for almost 5 mins after that about how I was raising my voice. He also complained at the beginning of the convo that I had spent the day yelling at him, though when I asked him to think about it, he did admit that I hadn't really yelled.
----
Yes, Nop, I realize I need to get my kids to a safe place. Leaving here - I would loose the house. I don't think a shelter would take us unless there is an actual threat of violence, I can try to find out.
The kids have known peace. My kids are remarkably well-balanced, though I notice the signs of strain lately. Up untill this summer, when I started 'pushing' to 'work' on stuff, H did yell, mostly about cleaning rooms at night, but for the most part, he's not really part of their lives , so they don't have to deal with him.
Two summers ago, the kids and I spent 6 weeks in the States, at my Dad's house, and in a cottage my uncle owns on Cape Cod. That was peace! (for the most part, my mother can be a lot like H- my parents divorced when I was 20)
I guess I've been in denial, still hoping there was a way to work on this, 'cause I really don't want to have to take my kids away from this, not to mention loose my job...but I do think it's getting to the point where I have to ignore that.
Thanks, all of you, for caring. I'll keep in touch.
FF wrote: ----------- More of the same, H complaining that I am trying to paint myself as the angel, he as the bad guy. -----------
I don't mean to concern you, but is he reading what you are posting here or other places? That statement just seemed a bit odd.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Quote: FF wrote: ----------- More of the same, H complaining that I am trying to paint myself as the angel, he as the bad guy. -----------
I don't mean to concern you, but is he reading what you are posting here or other places? That statement just seemed a bit odd.
-NOPkins-
Possible, I suppose, but I don't think it's likely. I have been trying to cover my tracks, been a lot less trusting lately, but that doesn't mean I don't think he could find me here if he wanted.
No, he's said things like that for a while, that I'm always trying to make myself look good, and bringing up all his bad points, or talking down to him.
I empathize with your situation, I really do. But yet again something you posted struck a chorde with me, so here goes.....
Quote: I guess I've been in denial, still hoping there was a way to work on this, 'cause I really don't want to have to take my kids away from this
Away from what exactly? Fighting? Yelling? Abusive behavior? A childish father? Manipulation? Control?....or a happy family?
I don't mean to trivialize this one little bit...just trying to help keep this in perspective for you. What your children are witnessing and also going through, same as you...isn't healthy, it's not a good thing for them to learn (and they are)...and it's stressful on them as well. I know you already know these things. So why do I say this? To help strengthen your backbone. You can find another job, it may be a pain and it may be inconvenient...but the physical & mental health of you and your children far outweighs inconvenience.
After reading your posts and keeping up with your situation I truly don't believe your situation is fixable unless your H seeks professional help (which so far he seems unwilling to do).....but this is MY opinion. I also believe you already know what needs to be done (in your gut) but so far you haven't managed to screw up the courage (and that's what it will take) to do it.
FF, you are a STRONG woman....if you weren't there is no way you could have tolerated what you have for so long. You CAN do what you need to do, just remember...the unknown is the scariest thing there is (IMO), usually the horrible things we fear of the unknown, those things our minds concoct up are far worse than the reality will be...when you finally take action. Not to mention....YOU will feel soooo much better about yourself for taking care of you and your children.
I'm thinking of you. When you need some strength just remember you've got a red-headed, green-eyed Amazon looking over your shoulder who'se mentally giving you all the strength she's got to get through this!
I had tears in my eyes by the time I finished reading this. Thanks. It really does mean a lot that you took the time to write that - and mean it.
Your post got me thinking...I realized that my fear has become more focused over the past couple of months, since I've realized what I was up against. I was very much afraid of the unknown, as you all know, but it's now it's more fear of the known. I do wonder if it's just me putting up more roadblocks, but I'm really grieving a dream right now.
Quote: Away from what exactly? Fighting? Yelling? Abusive behavior? A childish father? Manipulation? Control?....or a happy family?
Actually, I was thinking about taking them away from this big house, with a nice yard on the edge of the town forest ('our woods' they call it) with ski trails (I watch people skiing outside my kitchen window every morning as I make breakfast), in a neighborhood where our next door neighbors speak German as a family language, and across the street live the girls best friend, and her two adopted Chinese sisters - meaning this is a very un-typical Finnish neighborhood where we fit right in. I don't think I will be able to afford that myself.
Quote: You can find another job, it may be a pain and it may be inconvenient...but the physical & mental health of you and your children far outweighs inconvenience.
I know, and that's why I feel really guilty and selfish about what I'm about to say...It's not just that changing jobs will be inconvenient, it's that I wonder what it will do to MY mental health. I know that sounds strange in light of what I've been through, but my sanity has been my job. My changing a job will mean changing careers. Most likely it won't be a very good paying job, since my writen skills in Finnish are not very good. I actually applied for a high school music teaching job here in town, but there's not too much chance that I will get it, since I'm not technically qualified (meaning on paper. My degree is in performance, not education. Which means everything here. They can't even interview me if there are more 'paper qualified' people applying, by law - even if I might be more experienced).
At my age, in this country, I'm already 'on the edge' of my career, because I spend much more time being mommy (and I'm not bitter about that at all). But to get out completely...that's what I'm having a hard time with. I think that may be what's causing me to drag my feet more than worrying about being able to take care of the kids - it's right up there with wondering what H will do when he realizes we're leaving.
I can't - legally as well as financially - leave the country right now ( if I just leave, without H's approval, he can file kidnapping charges). Although that's been one thought as well - that I find a great job there (in any field, it wouldn't bother me so much to 'get out' in the States, 'cause I know I'd have more of a chance to do some playing, hard to explain) and convince H to let the kids and I go there for a year or so, and see what happens then. I've been snooping around Monster, not so much luck, I guess I should start calling people and see what I could do. There is a possibility H might go for that.
I guess that's another footdraggin point, that if I stay, there's an outside chance we might get to the States in the next year or so...if I leave, it'll most likely be several years before I get to even visit.
It maybe that I'm just dragging up worst-case scenarios. The hardest part is keeping myself strong, telling myself NOT to be 'sucked in' by H being nice - I have to realize now that's only going to last as long as I don't disagree with him, or ask for something...
FF is there anything that we state side cyber friends could do to help you do so you maintain a certain amount of internal will power? I don' know what you need to maintain your strength till you decide to do what ever you feel is best for all involved.
The only thing I can say vent as often as you need to.
Your community sounds very nice. Why is it when most things seem perfect, there is almost always something missing? (love and harmony)
FF, I really feel for you and I understand why you don't want to take the kids away from the house and why you don't want to change jobs. Those aren't trivial matters by any means. Separating would be hard enough and stressful enough without adding to it trying to get settled and make friends for your kids in a new neighborhood, and starting a new career. And if you move, when your kids are older the woods will just be a distant childhood memory instead of the setting for all of their growing up years. Staying right where you are makes perfect sense.
Is there any way you can "separate emotionally" while living in the same house? Start living like a single woman emotionally. It sounds like you live pretty much on parallel tracks as it is. What if you plan a strategy that focuses on taking care of you and the kids. Cultivate friendships with other women around you. Pamper yourself physically. Take care of yourself emotionally and spiritually with reading, meditation, lots more music.
What if you just make a vow to yourself that you will not "get into it" with him, no matter what. Don't rise to the bait, no matter what he says/does (short of physical violence). In other words, stop trying to get him to come around. Stop trying to make him be different. Just accept him as he is and accept your relationship as it is. Cut down on the stress level. Back off and leave him alone. Accept that this is an imperfect situation, and that you are choosing to stay in it for good reasons.
For example, the thing about the keyboard. Let him move it. So what? Does it really matter all that much? Was it worth a fight? For this system to work you have to swallow your pride and give up the notion of being right. Chores, tidiness, noise-- whatever he rants about, just let him. Go about your business, be kind to him, but tune him out.
Can you carve out a life in that house for you and the kids with minimal pleasant interaction and NO hostile interaction with your H? No, it's not an ideal solution, but leaving with the kids sounds like it would do more damage to everyone in the long run.
I wouldn't discount the healing, nurturing qualities of those woods and your great neighbors.
and the kids play around with it - rather well, but nothing serious yet)
, so they don't have to deal with him.
