My EW is the very same way. She cares so much about what other people will think that she makes great sacrafices against herself to make them happy. She has been seeing my kids (from previous m) since nov. and know one in her family knows is yet. If only she would listen to her heart and not every body elses.
Yes I very much was hassled by relatives all the time. In fact, that is part of the reason we split up, because they just wouldn't leave us alone the whole time we were married.
I saw H today and it went great. He said he wanted to talk about my text on our 'secret' R and he said he didn't want to announce it at this moment because of all the stuff we have been through before. He said he wanted to take things slowly and get to know me more before we make it public with the relatives.
They were a large reason we split up, so I see his point.
I explained my reason behind it, that I want more time with him and I want to do more stuff without sneaking around. I explained if we went out more, it would feel more like a proper R and I wouldn't be so worried.
To my surprise, he agreed with me and said we should go out more and do other things more, so that was great. He said he appreciated that I text him first, rather than just telling people (that was 180 for me).
He then made me a coffee (first time he's helped himself to things in my kitchen!).
He then started this discussion about M and how he has changed his opinions on it, and babies. I stopped him and said hold on, you're jumping too fast, I am not asking you to marry me.
He said he knew, but he wanted to discuss it now so we don't argue about it in future. He said that he does not agree with legal marriage as people can break their vows by getting a D and that the stuff he likes these days are commitment ceremonies or hand-fasting which he said to him have more meaning and that he doesn't think there needs to be an M to prove that he is in love.
(I knew his views on this already). I said I accepted this fact but from my point of view, there would have to be some type of ceremony (legal or not) just so we could apologise to each other for the hurts and re-commit to the R. I again stated it was too early to be discussing it.
He accepted my point and said that if we did have a ceremony it would be 'quite a long time in the future'. I told him I knew that and just wanted to enjoy dating him and getting to know him again and not have to talk about M or babies.
I said that he was viewing me as the old 'Jo' with a lot of issues I have now successfully worked through, and I was not like that but we both didn't know each other all that well because we didn't see each other for a year and this time round we don't get a lot of time alone.
He said he knew and validated my feeling that we should do more non-sexual things.
Then he gave me this big hug and we stood in the doorway kissing each other for ages, before he left, saying 'See you on Friday, and we shall talk in the meantime.'
Ioavva, You must be a saint. I can't compliment you enough considering what you've been through. How did you find the heart to hang in there and what caused him to change? Running on Empty II
What kept me going? Well, apart from external influences, my M was pretty good. H doted on me and the kids for 8 years; we were friends for 6 years before that. I've been round to his house for Christmas dinner every year since 1987 (apart from the last 2 years).
Almost anything I wanted, he tried to do, so the whole time the court stuff was happening, I just focused on the past to get me through it. I told myself this wasn't his normal personality, this was depression, or a blip, or whatever, as long as I didn't have to believe he was being malicious.
That's how I coped. I remembered all the wonderful times me and him and the kids have had over the years and I wanted that again. I reasoned to myself that even if I got married again to somebody else, it would never be as good because then you've got all the issues which come with step-families, and I truly believe that H is my soul-mate, 'the one' etc, no matter how corny that sounds.
So I just got focused and I thought I'm going to carry on until I win, so matter how many years that takes me. I still have that attitude.
He changed, or is changing, because I am. I know it's a cliche and it's mentioned on this site, but honestly, it's true. I am happy and outgoing and he likes my changes and mirrors them.
Before the break up, I was shy, I had no confidence (caused by years of parental bullying) and they'd start a fight with me and I'd just cry and then blame him for not defending me.
Now I've cut my family out (about time too), I say what I think when I think it, I stand up for myself and I hardly ever cry, especially not in front of him. Sexually I am tons more assertive and he loves that, I don't take offence so easily. They are little modifications of behaviour but it really works.
My life-coaches moto was 'Do What Works!' - excellent advice for everyone in this situation, I think.
Quote: He changed, or is changing, because I am. I know it's a cliche and it's mentioned on this site, but honestly, it's true. I am happy and outgoing and he likes my changes and mirrors them.
It has been 10 months since my bomb and we have been S for 7 months. I have been DBing for 6 months. Anyway, I noticed that H "mirrors" my actions and attitudes to some degree. He has also commented on me "smiling" a couple of times. H is full speed ahead for the D and it will probably be final in around three months.
My question is, how did you "act" during all the proceedings, paperwork, moving and all the "hard" stuff? Were you able to act happy? Did you leave him with a feeling that your were or could be friends? Was/is there an OW involved? We don't have kids, so there is really no reason for us to remain in contact.
During the court proceedings, I wore a suit and did not look at him at all. When I was being cross-examined I did not look at him. I simply answered the questions I was asked.
Then I'd go across the road to a cafe and buy a large coffee and some chocolate. The court hearings got me into chocolate in a big way, they fended off a lot of stress. When I got home, I'd shut myself in the bathroom and bawl my head off for half an hour, I'd ring my friend and off-load to her, then I'd get a grip.
If ever I saw him in between hearings, I acted as if it hadn't happened, to start with I was formal and distant, but polite, a little later on I was formal but friendly.
One time I remember he turned up at court unshaven, his hair all over the place and wearing JEANS (to court!!). On the way out, I passed him and whispered at him 'You look like you've been sleeping under a hedge'. He looked at me and said 'I have; I've just been camping and didn't have time to change.' So I guess in some ways there was always a certain level of closeness even in the midst of the court room.
Instead of getting angry about his court room allegations (which I was FURIOUS about), I took the funny moments from the situation, such as the above, and commented on that when I saw him. On the next ocassion we met after that, I told him that he looked like Heathcliffe from Wuthering Heights. He laughed at me.
Eventually, it DID get really nasty as I passed all my psychological evals and was going to get custody so he pulled every trick in the book to prevent me from having them. He did get an OW, purely for court purposes (he wanted to be a 2 parent family to impress the judge). It worked, hence he has custody of 3 of my kids. I was angry, I was hurt, I was afraid, I was disgusted, you name it.
So I told him I was walking out of their lives - including his life - and I did, for a whole year. No phone calls, no texts, no visits, no msn etc. I basically went dead. We had the final trial in that time and I still ignored him. Final trial was 2 days long with barristers etc.
Afterwards I carried on ignoring him. I took back my business and worked on that, I dated (and slept with 4 other men to help ease the pain of OW), I re-decorated my entire house, I started writing a book etc.
It was the loneliest God-awful time in my life and I often cried, but I got through it. Eventually, he came round to me, missing me, crying, etc (see post I left for TAG, running on empty, page 9) and basically confirmed what I knew anyway, that he wasn't in love with OW and he still had feelings for me, so I started seeing him and the kids again, first rather formally, then as we relaxed, as friends only and once we had become friends it only took him about 3 weeks to become my lover. He forgave me for the one-night stands because I forgave him for OW.
When the D papers came, he was already 'mine' again, so to speak, because we slept together again just a couple of days before the D was final, so when I got the papers, although I was a bit upset, they didn't mean anything to me.
He talked about commitment ceremonies for 2 hours on the day we got the papers.
I did try to act happy whenever I saw him (apart from the first year when I didn't know about DB'ing), ocassionally I'd have a bad day but I always tried to be upbeat.
I never saw him as just my friend, always as my lover, even when we were in court. I kept this a private thought so I wouldn't seem too pushy, but I was determined that this man would stay my lover and now he is. I believe positive affirmation had a lot to do with it.
I still have loads of DB'ing to do. We don't live together yet and I won't consider that we are reunited until we do, but I DO consider him to be my partner and he thinks the same as we have both agreed to be exclusive to each other.
I hope this sheds some light, anymore questions, fire away.
Thanks for such a complete and lengthy answer. It sounded pretty "ugly" and I'm sorry you went through all of that. I apologize also if I dreged up some bad memories.
You handled yourself very well in some tough situations. I will keep your example close to my heart when I face all of this stuff.
Has you H since mentioned any "good" things he noticed while you were DBing?
