Bare with me I'm new here...

[cinemanymph]

HappyMomo,

Your dad sounds like the creepiest kind of creep. His behavior was abhorrent. Your commitment to be a good person and raise your family responsibly is a testament to your strength.

Lillie, I could have not said it any better. That is a lot to chew on, HappyMomo. Bless you.

When I was 6, my babysitter nicknamed me "But, Why", LOL.

[Lillieperl]

Happy, you sound like one extremely level-headed and mature person. I know we carry our pasts with us, as you said, but it sounds like you have-- in many ways-- come to terms with yours.

The big elephant is still there, sitting in the middle of your marriage. It's funny (odd, not ha-ha) how people react to someone who has "been to the edge" and survived. Sometimes when a woman has been raped as an adult, her partner gets spooked by her. I felt something of this when my husband died... people look at you like you've been somewhere they never want to have to go. When my late husband returned from Viet Nam, his (then) wife never wanted to talk about it-- and indeed, most of those men did not talk about their war experiences until Desert Storm seemed to raise the curtain on those days. Finally, 30 years after he got back, my husband was able to talk about the war. My husband told me that it was so weird-- one day he's in a helicopter being shot at, and two days later he's sitting in his living room drinking a glass of milk, and there was a conspiracy of sorts not to talk about it. There is a theory that our fathers (I'm 56), the World War II generation-- although in many ways they were/are The Greatest Generation-- raised us while their war time experiences were shoved deep down in their souls with a pile of rocks on top. Maybe this is one of the reasons that my generation-- the Flower Children-- needed to break out. The people who were in concentration camps also wanted to put the experience behind them... understandably so. But it means that lots of us lived with big elephant on the coffee table.

You've been through war, too. I strongly suggest you seek out a therapist to help you get to a very solid place about this stuff. Your husband isn't in any position to offer you the rock-solid support you need. Gradually, maybe you and a good therapist can figure out a way to help him rise to the occasion, so to speak. It doesn't mean you have to tell him every detail, but you need to tell SOMEONE (a therapist) every detail. I started a thread several months ago about immature sexual partners. Some of us like to feel we are being approached and fcuked by a man... but we find ourselves with scared boys... usually through no fault of theirs. If you met my bf's mother, you would easily see why he is afraid of being swallowed alive (!) by a woman.

What is your H's relationship with his mother like? What seems to be her attitude toward sex? Just curious. My bf's mom is 86, runs a bar, and still flirts in very shameless and explicit ways with young guys. I think she's pathetic... and I suspect her customers do, too. The first Thanksgiving we had (bf, me and mom-- bf and I had only known each other four months) she sat at the table in front of me and told my bf giggling that one of her customers always comes in the bar and asks her if he's going to get any pu$$y that night? I just about choked! I don't mind explicit talk, but the setting was entirely inappropriate.

In order to make the omelets you crave, I think you're going to have to break some eggs...

LP

[HappyMomo2]

Lillieperl, thanks so much for your reply. I am so thankful to my friend for telling me about this BB, it has been very liberating to get this stuff off my chest.

Before I go any further I would like to offer my sympathy for your loss of your H - I am tempted to ask how it happened and when - but I understand if you would rather not talk about it. You are 56, so I'm sure you didn't see that loss coming and I'm sorry. I understand what you said about

I felt something of this when my husband died... people look at you like you've been somewhere they never want to have to go.

I "get" that everyone is pushing their way in line to offer condolenses AT the time, but then after the lull dies down, people don't know what to say and back off. I understand WHY this happens but, then you also have to consider, hey, this person has just had a routine/habit taken away. (that may sound rather off-handed, which I don't mean - I don't mean to belittle the love lost, etc - just can't get that deep with writting, and I tend to be a very down to the dirt basic kind of communicator)... so let's help them find some happiness and know people understand that time has the audacity (sp?) to NOT stand still or stop during times like this and we're here to honor the friendship. It warms my heart to of a BF.

I was thinking yesterday about my M and discussing my past here and what it must sound like. I have very mixed feelings about people experiencing tragic events in their lifes. On one hand, just as you mentioned in your very thoughtful and right-on-the-money post there are SO MANY people walking around out there with that bone or skeleton in their closet. Truely, it's almost like the human psycho was made to handle it. I mean, we live in a violent time now and we cause so much unnecessary termoil for ourselves - it's almost like some of those who don't have that bone/skeleton crave one. And then I think to myself "hey girl, your problems really don't make a hill of beans compared to what some people had to and continue to endure. (I'm beginning to think you are right about still needing to talk with a good therapist - man I am almost classic text book huh! But my problem with therapist is that I HATE dwelling on the details - on 1 hand I see the argument for that's what's needed to get past it, but on the other hand it's like, just get up and shake it off - YOU LIVED ALREADY ) But here I sit with a marriage that I am complaining about the sex in and am beginning to understand WOW, okay didn't see that coming but now I am being to understand why it did.

As for my H relationship with his mom and her attitude towards sex. Okay. You may want to sit down for this one. As I mentioned, my H was raised in Mayberry, truly - it wasn't called Mayberry of course - but should have been. His mother has a great deal of pull - if you will - in his life still. Which is okay. She's a good person and a generation back mothers/grandparents etc were still in the home/lives. And that generational influence is good to put things in perspective, especially with children but at the same time, as with any relationship, it can cause pre-mature gray hair, think Marie on Everybody Love Raymond (but I digress) I mean, we flew to Chicaco to ask if we could live together. Which at the time, seemed sweet, now looking back, I can almost still hear the train whistles. But seriously, I can't complain. She's a very good person and does help alot . But she's a person just the same. H father died 11 yrs ago now, she's never dated, still wears her wedding ring watchs tape, etc.,these are good qualities which I know my H has inheritied, they are like geese, they mate for life (but boy do they squawk hee/hee ). She drives him crazy but it's typical mom/son stuff, I mean she basically lives with us for pete's sake - I'm for the most part pretty easy going. And I am certain that she doesn't even remember what sex was.

I hope I'm not forgetting to respond to something - if so, please help me remember.

[cinemanymph]

it's almost like some of those who don't have that bone/skeleton crave one

People who grew up with 2.5 siblings, a dog in suburbia, and parents who loved and respected them are a rarity. In my almost 40 years, I've only come acrossed 2 such people. They, btw, are fantastic people who I am lucky to be friends with. I'm always bugging them with questions about how they grew up. They are patient and put up with me. Most people grew up with dysfunction in their families, it's just a matter of degree.

"hey girl, your problems really don't make a hill of beans compared to what some people had to and continue to endure

There is always a more shocking story out there, but, HappyMomo, don't let them minimize yours. If you think you need to talk to someone, don't let the fact that you someone else suffered more stop you. Seek out a therapist who wants to help you work to meet set goals.

Bless you, HappyMomo.

[CeMar]

cinemanymph:

I grew up in the 60's with a stay at home mom, lovinf parents, well off, a brother, cats and dogs, in a christian home, without any real dysfunction. My wife on the other hand grew up in an extremely dysfunctional family life, if you could call it that. She now acts exactly the way that several marriage books say dysfunctional women will act. The old who wants to want scenario.

[HappyMomo2]

Cemar: Please expand, I'm not sure if I understand.

[cinemanymph]

Congrats Ce!
You are now free to join the very small circle of adult-children-of-normal-upbringing that I know. They are kind, patient and generous to a fault. They also put up with my dysfunctional lunacy with grace and give me gentle reality checks when they are warrented. They offer hugs and advice when needed, alot like many members of this board.

[Lillieperl]

cine wrote

People who grew up with 2.5 siblings, a dog in suburbia, and parents who loved and respected them are a rarity.

I agree with this, but I also think that what Happy has been through is also a rarity-- I hope. I think most of us were in normally dysfunctional homes, but hers was criminally negligent and it's a miracle she has survived intact.

Regarding how people treat you when someone dies-- at first they do offer condolences and that is much appreciated. I compare the early days of widowhood to being set on fire and shot into outer space, where you are just in free fall, tumbling and burning. When I woke up every morning, there was just this heart-pounding TERROR that settled over me. I expected to be sad, to miss him, to feel immobilized, but the raw fear was unexpected. Many people have panic attacks in the grocery store when they see his/her favorite food. Many people cannot bring themselves to go back to the church where the funeral was held. Some people leave everything at home exactly as it was... a friend left her husband's shoes where he had taken them off in the living room for a couple of years. Throwing away their toothbrush, medicines... awful. OTOH other people strip the house of all reminders the same day or very soon. NOTHING makes you feel better, so it doesn't much matter what you do. Only time-- lots of it-- makes any difference. No way to rush the process.

Later, unless they have suffered a similar loss and really understand, most people tend to disappear, and there is a subtle pressure to "get back to normal." The length of time others deem appropriate for mourning varies, but generally you are expected to be mostly "over it" by the end of the first year. Different people react in different ways to the loss of a spouse, but for most of the widowed people I've been in contact with, at one year, far from being Over It, it is, in fact, finally dawning on you that they are NOT coming back EVER. When this really sinks in, it is a huge shock. It took me at least two years to come to terms with the loss, although I have a widow friend who lost her husband the same time I did (almost five years ago) she says she still misses him more every day. I made an intentional effort not to be like her. In fact, I was hurting so much that I told people at the time he died, "I don't want to be feeling this bad in a year."

Before I became a widow, I was one of those people who didn't know what to say, who didn't bring up the deceased person's name for fear of "reminding" the mourner. As if they could think of anything else!! One of the things widowed people tell me the most is that no one talks about him/her anymore. They never here his/her name... it's as though others are trying to act like the person never existed. Some of these things apply to other losses... but there are some things about being a widow that are unique.

Thank you so much for your expression of condolence and for asking about this subject. It really means a lot to me.

As for your not wanting to revisit your past... clearly it is affecting your present life. This is too big an elephant to stuff into a shoebox. If you find a counselor, you can say, "I want to do some work on this, but frankly, the idea of going through every detail is abhorrent to me right now. Can we do this in baby steps?" Remember, the shrink is someone YOU hire to help you get where you want to go. If you don't like him/her, move on. If you got a bad haircut, you'd dump the hairdresser, right?

Ironically, my husband and I had a saying when facing something unpleasant, "How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time."

You are a tolerant person to have your MIL living with you. I think this is commendable, and it seems to me one of the ills of our society that our elders are relegated to institutional living.

Having said that, does having her around all the time serve a hidden agenda for one or both of you by preventing you and your H having to face each other alone?

[Greeneyedlass]

Cinema,

You'll have to include me in that group then with CeMar...I too grew up in an Ozzy & Harriet household. I was VERY fortunate that way and count my blessings on a regular basis for that.

[cinemanymph]

Welcome GEL!!
Families that clearly love each other facinate me. I love idyllic childhood stories. Do you have any favorites?