Honeypot - you're a dear for helping me address these issues. I guess I don't really do anything to help the situation I am complaining about. I guess if I fondled him more out of the bedroom maybe we would get that spark back. So, you're saying if we're sitting on the couch or just brushing against each other in the hall if I ventured out and (for lack of a better word) groped him, he might recipicate with a little more passion in the bedroom and not so humdrum?
As for the pedestal idea, I think you might be on to something there. But then an earlier comment about him not wanting to bring back past thoughts (childhood) might be accurate also - I had never even thought of that. But he does confuse me with that because in the past when I have tried to broach the subject to a little more passion in bed he made the comment "I KNOW what you want", like I was asking him to do something terrible. I was just trying to get him to spice it up a bit.
Quote: an earlier comment about him not wanting to bring back past thoughts (childhood) might be accurate also - I had never even thought of that. But he does confuse me with that because in the past when I have tried to broach the subject to a little more passion in bed he made the comment "I KNOW what you want", like I was asking him to do something terrible. I was just trying to get him to spice it up a bit.
Out of curiosity...have you sat him down and talked to him about it? You know...when he says "I KNOW what you want"...ask him..."do you really? What do you think I want?" When he avoids answering it, as he's likely to do...ask him again to tell you what he thinks you want, sincerely. See if he can really tell you, to see how accurate he is. My guess is, he's waaaaay off in his own mind.
Yes, Moma, that's what I was getting at. SHOW him what you want, rather than telling him.
I hesitate to tell you to do it all..that's not going to make you feel better about it. But you can certainly show him what you're talking about. Personally, and I mean no offense whatsoever, I hate the phrase spice it up. What does that mean? It would have just about as many interpretations as people who would say it! Each person's idea would be different, right!
Could you approach the topic in a sexy and fun way? For instance, next time you are alone in bed, ask him to tell you what he finds sexy. What is his idea of the perfect night of lovemaking. At first, they will probably be shy, reserved answers because he is too nervous at this point to really divulge himself. Over the years, I've gotten a better look into my H's sexuality and there's some really sizzlin stuff there. Who knew! Another thing I do is to ask him some sort of question like above and then if he doesn't answer right away, I'll say, Ok I'll go first. And then I outline something I know will get us both going.
Nowadays he is almost exclusively the one doing the spicy talkin. This was not the case a few years ago and honestly I couldn't even imagine him doing or saying ANYTHING sexy back then. Times change and so do people.
I think the trick in your situation (and mine) is to walk the line between making the atmosphere sexy and safe enough for him to open up, and creating performance anxiety--that's what his "I know what you want" comment was about.
If you make some tentative moves towards him and increase your own sexually aggressive behavior in bed, perhaps he will 'see' where you are going and follow you. It's awfully hard to be pushed into unknown territory by your spouse, with them saying "Come on go THIS way.." and you're stumbling along in the dark, afraid to take the next step. I'm picturing a scenario in which you both start out walking together, with a flashlight, with you making the forward steps and eventually him striking out with some forward steps of his own.
Sounds too good to be true, but hey it could work!
P.S. I am speaking to myself as well as you, of course, and had to make a list of written goals and post it up on my desk so that I remember to stay on task and do MY part. Have you considered doing this?
This is great - you guys have already gotten me excited to try to wait up for my husband tonight. Which is really saying something in that he gets home at midnight and I get up at 5:00 a.m.
Honeypot - can I ask what you mean by goals? You don't have to get too personal, just maybe an example so I can get the general idea. But at least it's getting me out of the rut of "poor me" syndrome. Okay, this may be obvious to everyone else but me BUT, so, where do I start. Maybe that's half "our" problem is I don't know exactly "what" I'm asking it would seem huh. I say give me more passion, well of course he's fumbling in the dark because I haven't given him any clues!!!!!! Holy Moses!
Okay, so I'm thinking be waiting on the couch when he comes home with sexy nighties and candles lit. Okay - he'll want to shower first (I'de probably prefer that too hee/hee!). I think I need to get that Cosmo out for some suggestions huh! I'm thinking...... what, feathers for carassing his back? I'm feeling lost here but I'm excited about the potential! I just hope he doesn't shoot me down.
HappyMomo, My goodness, what a schedule! I wish you luck in having a fabulous evening. Cinema
I don't mind the sun sometime
The images it shows
I can taste you on my lips
And smell you in my clothes
Cinnamon and Sugar
And softly spoken lies
You never know just how you look
Through someone elses eyes
BHS-"Pepper"
Ce, You are waxing funny ! Cinema-experiencing her first smile of the day.
I don't mind the sun sometime
The images it shows
I can taste you on my lips
And smell you in my clothes
Cinnamon and Sugar
And softly spoken lies
You never know just how you look
Through someone elses eyes
BHS-"Pepper"
I think the rest might be too much too soon. You will know if this is the case or not.
I would start small and build on those successes. Otherwise he will have a built in excuse for why he doesn't want to put much effort into it--"It's too hard", he'll say. "I'm too tired", he'll whine.
My advice is to start small, surprise him a few times, build on the small successes and then jointly plan a night where you wait up with candles lit, etc. That way, you can both anticipate it.
Here is my list of goals, just so you know what I was talking about: 1. Respond warmly when he initiates affection, even if I am busy. If it means putting one (or more, lol) of the kids down, that's ok. **I wrote this one because I had a tendency to stand there and soak up his attention without letting him know how much I was enjoying it. I didn't ever push him away but I didn't let on just how much it meant to me.** 2. Positive Feedback **Tell him when he does something I like. If I can't at that moment, I send him an email the next day. I will say, "ooh I liked that, thank you!" 3. Positive Explanations **Look for positive explanations for his behavior, instead of jumping to the easiest conclusion. For instance, I will whack myself and say "he's genuinely tired because D2 got him up twice last night" instead of saying "He's boring".** 4. Blatant Initiation **Do an all out initiation, like what you were describing. Mom, feel free to blast me for this one but it is the ONLY one on the list that I haven't accomplished yet. Whack whack! Btw, I have both good and bad excuses so be prepared, lol.** 5. X's and O's **He asked me several years ago to initiate more affection. As I said earlier, I like the Man Pursues Woman scenario and it was hard for me to remember to pursue him with affection, so I made it a goal.**
That's it.
I have to say I've been pretty successful with all of them, with the exception of the Wowzer Sex Initiation. I have sucked rotten eggs with that one. Part of it is that we have little kids who constantly ruin our opportunities with either their presence or their germs (they get sick a lot) and the other part of it is that I, myself, have been ill for 2 months and our sex life is suffering. I wrote these goals in November I think.
However, even taking all that other stuff away, the idea of a Wowzer Initiation scares the hell outta me. I've done it before and been rejected every single time. I think things would turn out better now, but I can't seem to shake the heebie jeebies.
Quote: As for if I think it plays into my sexuality, yes. I'm not sure if anyone would understand that if they hadn't been through it though.
Does any of that make sense? Sorry to go off on that, I know, this is about my marriage, not childhood - I'll get off the couch now!
and
Quote: And I'm okay with my past, it's made me a stronger person
The childhood you described is beyond horrendous... have you had professional help in dealing with it?
How much does he know about the details of your childhood situation? Personally, I think your husband's comment "I KNOW what you want" was not a statement about performance anxiety. I think he was saying, "You've looked the devil in the face, and what you've seen scares the cr*p out of me! I'm terrified of what you know and what you've done."
The huge contrast between your painful and troubled past (with violent and degrading sex) and his "clean, well-lighted room" with a devoted mom and bland sexuality is stunning...
Regardless of the fact that what happened wasn't your fault, the thing is you have been exposed repeatedly to a kind of sexuality that is the antithesis of everything in his life. I think this terrifies him. And your assertion that you're "over it" and it doesn't affect your marriage and your current sex life... it's as though you chose a man who would conspire with you to keep Pandora's box (as it were) padlocked.
And you nursed your dad in his final illness and pretended you were the good daughter? Yikes! What self-control you must have. Inside you must be screaming for some kind of release... for someone to see you, understand you, soothe you, comfort you, and just love you...
My bf is also very reticent about sex and I believe he does not masturbate. He is also an only child and (I believe) in thrall to his mom (who raised him as a single parent). He is something of a prude and doesn't even like sexy jokes. So I do understand a bit what it is like to be with a guy like that. I have been unsuccessful in getting him to loosen up. The suggestions that others have made in this thread would probably "work" on any other guy... but not on him. Once I tried to get in the shower with him, and he all but threw me out of the room bodily. I had the very clear sense that I was "violating" him in some way.
Lillieperl, Thanks so very much for your response and WOW.
Quote: How much does he know about the details of your childhood situation? Personally, I think your husband's comment "I KNOW what you want" was not a statement about performance anxiety. I think he was saying, "You've looked the devil in the face, and what you've seen scares the cr*p out of me! I'm terrified of what you know and what you've done." and Regardless of the fact that what happened wasn't your fault, the thing is you have been exposed repeatedly to a kind of sexuality that is the antithesis of everything in his life. I think this terrifies him. And your assertion that you're "over it" and it doesn't affect your marriage and your current sex life... it's as though you chose a man who would conspire with you to keep Pandora's box (as it were) padlocked.
Wow, this is so profound, I think you've just written what I have been afraid or unwilling or just plain pushed off to the side all along.
My H knows the basics of my childhood. Please know this is NOT something I go around shouting at the top of my lungs, only a few people in my life do know... my husband, pastor, a couple of girl friends and after the birth on my son - while my father was still alive, my mother-in-law due to necessity and clarification. I told my H when things appeared to be getting serious and because, even though I say "I'm past that" I am smart enough to know that we are all walking around with our pasts. I mean that's what forms us all. I cannot honestly tell you how he took the news. When I began telling him he just started crying, grabbed and held me and said I'm never going to let anything happen to you again. Bingo! These are all good things to hear believe me. We have never really "discussed" it again. He fell into the "act" of pretending it didn't happen. He knew my father and my mother prior to hearing this and liked them. I stayed in the home because my mother was crippled and I felt at that that time it was my job to take care of her. As for my Dad, well, we co-existed. I told a therapist once that the weird stuff didn't actually happen until after the sexual abuse stopped - it was like this great big white elephant was sitting on the coffee table and everyone was just looking around it. He was a sick man. I learned later that I was not the only one he was abusing, my cousin(s), and friend of the family - and AT HIS FREAKIN WAKE - I learned of something he said to a young (7 yr old) girl just days before his death that made the hair stand up on my neck. I think God just finally got fed up with him.
When something comes up either in the news or whatnot that brings the subject up or if we discuss my childhood, H doesn't really want to talk about it - he says it hurts him. I understand that. I don't dwell on it, don't get me wrong, but it is a part of me and I do know that it effects how I live and raise my children.
H is VERY understanding about my mothering. I have done a 180 on raising my kids as opposed to how I was raised. And I know this is not always the best thing. But he honors that I don't like closed doors, and things like that. I tend to get involved when I shouldn't when he is discipling the children but I am getting better. I am fortunate to have good, happy kids.
When I say I am okay with my past and am a stronger person I'm not saying I condone it. But I lived through it and feel like I am a good person dispite it. Maybe it gave me more of a consciuosness then I would have had without it. I mean I see people ruining their lives with drugs, prostitution, etc and I could have been one of them but am thankful for each and every "inspiration" to find a good life. I have seen therapists from time to time and read self-help books. And I am "gifted" with an ability to try and understand people now. It helps me not be a victim when I try to look at the cause of the action of him and not so much the action itself. Does that make sense?
My brother and H say I will "why" ya to death. And my H says that I give too many people the benefit of doubt when actually, I'm not giving them the benefit of doubt but just trying to understand the reasoning of what they did.
I think I did find someone to help me keep pandora's box closed so to speak but, well it's hard to explain. Look at the basics. I love him because he represents the complete opposite of everything I knew of the male role model when I was growing up. It's not like I knew that when I first met him though either. I never believed in love at first site (love at all for that matter) but when I met H I am not saying I knew I would marry him, but I knew he'd be my friend for life. Make sense? And he says the same thing about me. It was like God said you 2 will complete each other (not that I know what God says mind you).
You may have hit the nail right on the head when you said their could be his sexual response to knowing the facts of my childhood. It made perfect sense when you said it. So, if that is the case, where do I go from here? I mean I am fasinated by lesbians but have never tried to lifestyle myself. The sight of the female body turns me on but the feel of a man's in what I crave. And as I said in an earlier post, I tend to think of LM as a "conquerer". I realize how this must sounds, you guys probably think I'm a wak-job.
I want to thank everyone for very good advise and for hearing/reading/helping me. Last night's sexual encounter bombed due to sick/throwing up D (mood killer to say the least) maybe it isn't "time" though for me to get going with this, maybe I need to dig deeper inside me to help US with this.
!
