nicegal said: ------------- The internet and phone calling stuff is over. -------------
Well, I want to define an affair for you. Please think about this and see how it might apply to your current situation.
*An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect.*
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
The first time that B said no sex lasted for maybe 14-18 months. I knew something was wrong. The way he was talking was exactly as you described. I had gotton control of myself or was getting control during this period of time so my head and emotions were getting clearer. My self esteem had been in the pit, but I was coming out. Therefore I was able to look at what he was saying and his actions...it just wasn't him.
I don't know how I found out. Or what even made me do what I did (well, I do know). I would have never thought. But anyway, I ended up calling a P.I. and he advised putting spyware on his computer, to doing some legal stuff to have cell phone records sent to me, to even tracing the phone numbers on the internet and phoning two of the ladies to tell them that the guy was married. I found from internet records that one of them was married and told her that I'd tell her H.
I confronted B, not telling him all I knew. To give him the opportunity to come clean. He didn't. I knew lots of stuff and he lied about it all. I didn't try to hang him. I wanted him to tell me the truth. I even told him that I knew stuff and to please tell me the truth.
He knew that periodically I'd check his computer. Six months or so ago, he changed the password so that I cannot check it.
I've asked him several times and his comment usually has to do with it's his integrity sort of thing.
I read somewhere where you and NOP are open with each other and have access to each others stuff like that. I think especially where trust has been breached, if there is nothing to hide then why not let me see his computer?
He says nothing is going on. I actually believe him. But then, prove me right, I say.
Some of the present symptoms of not wanting to work on the marriage, staying mad at me etc. were the same ones as before.
Your list of items...yes, all those were there. He said all of those things to me.
My "boundary" on this was we had to go to counseling. I found the place. We went once...then he said he really didn't need it and why. I accepted it, because actually I his reasons why made sense and I told him I'd trust him on it.
I told him if I ever found out it happened again, then there would be a big consequence. Nothing with the marriage...but something with the fix that would embarrass him terribly...only because of his personality and not an embarrasing sort of thing in itself.
Thank you for your time and support. I cannot tell you how much it means to me. Thank you.
Quote: Let's see, Nop, why exactly do I escalate? Do you think that maybe B pushes all the right buttons to see if Miss Patient can blow? Then the focus will be on the issue that she blew and not the R issues that we have.
Buttons pushed or no, keeping your hands to yourself when angry is always the best goal.
Can spouses intentionally provoke each other? Absolutely. But you can always choose to walk away.
If you want provokation, have yourself a teenager or two.
This is one of those cases where it's okay for others to point out that there may have been "buttons pushed" but it smacks of justification and side-stepping of personal responsibility for the hitter to point it out themselves. kwim?
Quote:
Yes, I have hit B...I was very angry with him. It was no excuse for that behavior. That is not me. I have decided that I will not get into any conversation with him again that escalates me to that point. I did that sometime ago. I just leave the room.
Good. I would assume we all have thoughts of hari-kari on occasion, but it's a case of choosing to do the right thing. Even if the motivation isn't the best. I, once in a fit of pique, considered tossing a jar of jam at the white kitchen wall after a NOP/MrsNOP verbal altercation. Part of my reason for not doing so was the thought of me scrubbing strawberry jam off the wall and out of the carpet. Not exactly a "holy" motivation...
Quote:
Would B describe my behavior in December as a screaming fit tirade? It is unclear. Sounds like it. I'd like clarification as to what is losing the temper vs. the other.
Whichever it was, it was enough to derail the attempt toward recovery. Stress can overtake us all. And we all probably need to whine on occasion. I would strongly suggest that you rethink how you express your stress. Sounds like Barney is sensitive to rising voices and an extra load of emotion. I can get stressed and come to NOP and spill a while, as can he with me, but we don't think we can start pitching a tantrum because life has just whacked us again.
Think about it. If it your reactions to stress in front of your family aren't what you would do if a non-family member was there, then you need to re-tool your expressions. You've probably picked up a habit of responding poorly to stress. Habits can be broken. It helps if they are replaced with something that is more acceptable.
Home is where we get to let our hair down, but we ought to make sure that we're not treating and responding to our family in considerably less considerate ways than we would our neighbors.
Are you saying that even if something is presently not going on...he is measuring me up to something/someone else?
Can you clarify? Thank you.
Nicegal
--------------
I was hoping that I could point gently. Sometimes, I don't speak in couched terms very well.
I have a suspicion, - I have had for quite a while now. I really don't see affairs behind every bush but; There is a certain 'signature', a stench, an identifiable abstraction, that goes along with people and affairs.
I am not accusing, but I have a concern that there is not only an ongoing affair, but that the consort reads this forum as well, although I doubt she posts. If this concern is true, then the results would be obvious.
If I am wrong, then that would be a good thing.
Please let me know what you think.
Things are going to work out. Hang in there.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I agree completely. There is never an excuse for touching someone in a disrespectful manner. I've never had anger like it...I've drawn my line. I've made my decision. I did so sometime back that I would never touch B in a disrespectful way again.
Also, your point about "liar". I agreed. Also drew that boundary for myself...along with a few others. I knew better no justification.
I agree, whatever the motivation, for not throwing the jelly is a good one!!!!
I asked B if what I did in December was a however the tantrum fit was described. He didn't answer. I just want to give him the opportunity to perhaps rephrase himself when describing the incident. I am not endeavoring to justify myself...nor minimize for him...
In Counseling I was told that some of my behavior was unacceptable (a counselor didn't need to tell me that, I was aware). But also that some of my drama or excitment or venting in a different R wouldn't be perceived in the same way. But that B can't handle any voice raised in the least. He had so much of it as a kid...negative talk, yelling...that he can't take it in the least. Man, I wish he didn't read this at times. Yes, he also cannot take loads of emotion expressed from me.
THis is not all B though. It has been very good for me in many ways. As you said, it has made me have to deal with stress in a much more level headed way. I purposefully keep my voice quiet...example: when my kids are all talking at once,homework, dinner, phone....we've all had the scenario...I look at them in the eye, smile, and talk in a quiet voice.
These are not issues I'm just thinking about or dealing with now.
I came to grips with a lot of stuff in counseling. With myself and etc. I learned to accept that B can't handle my load of emotion. And it's ok. It has helped me to grow! I've had to change. I'm not done changing. But my head is clear, despite all that goes on between us.
Several years ago a discourse like this would have had me an emotional wreck! It no longer does that to me. I am so thankful to be over that hurdle.
I know that I side stepped my personal responsibility in that statement. A thing I have consciously endeavored to stay away from for a few years now. I haven't done it right all the time. But I am aware and it is my goal.
I look at NG and what she needs to change in her! It is not my place to fix B. It is not my place to even analyze what he needs to fix! If my mind starts there (and it will) I purposefully move it off that track.
I read somewhere that our minds are like a magnet. If we think negative thoughts it will attract more negative thoughts to our mind. But if we look for the good things and think about the good, then we'll see more good things in people too! I agree. It is a great analogy.
Thank you for your always gentle guidances and reminders. Real friends don't just tell people what they want to hear. Real friends tell people what they need to hear.
After I posted the eye opening post. B has been nice to me. It is like night and day! Believe me we are talking from chilled out to warm. And, of course, I love it.
I think I am going to have to ask (I cannot use the word "demand") that I see his computer tomorrow. What think?
Quote: He knew that periodically I'd check his computer. Six months or so ago, he changed the password so that I cannot check it.
I've asked him several times and his comment usually has to do with it's his integrity sort of thing.
I read somewhere where you and NOP are open with each other and have access to each others stuff like that. I think especially where trust has been breached, if there is nothing to hide then why not let me see his computer?
I ran across something the other day that I made a note of. I don't know who to credit but it's someone else's wisdom.
"The Difference Between Secret And Private"
'Private matters are those traits, truths, beliefs, and ideas about ourselves that we keep to ourselves. They might include our fantasies and daydreams, feelings about the way the world works, and spiritual beliefs. Private matters, when revealed either accidentally or purposefully, give another person some insight into the revealer.
Secrets, on the other hand, consist of information that has potentially negative impact on someone else-emotionally, physically, or financially. Secrets, when revealed either accidentally or purposefully, cause great chaos or harm to the secret-keeper and those around him or her.
Private: I believe in reincarnation.
Secret: I have a wife and a mistress and neither knows about the other.
Private: I got terrible grades in high school.
Secret: I forged my medical degree.'
Frankly, passwording his computer is not a good sign. We have access to each other's computer. We can both answer each other's cell phone. Letters, bills, cards, email or any other form of correspondence is available and viewable. Over the years we have participated on newsgroups and boards. I knew NOP was posting on a marriage board of some sort, he knew I was posting in a couple of other places. This was even during our "working through this" phase.
Nicegal said: ------------ I think I am going to have to ask (I cannot use the word "demand") that I see his computer tomorrow. What think? ------------
You may ask, but I wouldn't expect to get a 'yes', unless he has had some time with the computer first.
Don't demand.
Don't tank on us nicegal. Get yourself calm and detached. None of this is the end of the world.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
