I agree completely that B just needs some good ole lovin and sex! When we've been here before it is like we cannot come to any resolution...forget the talk. We need to have sex and then we'll be able to see it all more clearly.
Thankfully he agreed to scheduled sex in December. He agreed at the time that things were better and on track. Then the incident and then we are back here again.
Then he said that he didn't enjoy the sex because we didn't connect. It wasn't were I want to be, but I absolutely had a great time. We laughed, kissed wonderfully, tried a new position, played a romance game...wow! His kisses were awesome. I did so because I wanted to show him that I want to try, I want him to feel wanted...because that is the truth. He is the only man I want...and my God..is he ever wantable!!!!
I appreciate what you said about Mr. NOp got inside you head. It is the most frustrating thing. I don't like to express truth and then be told that is not what I mean. Talk about anger!!! Well, it is under control!
Having had such a wonderful time and he admitted so at the time too it just befuddles me that now he'd just rather take care of himself in the shower compared to it. Talk about hurt.
I agree with the talk about it all. These posts today have effected it all again too.
He has not talked with me about any of this. But his last position was that he did not want to have sex with me. I"ve approached him when he has said that before...even dressed in some black outfit trying to seduce him and he's turned me down. I've been rejected by him in so many other ways...this too...I can't keep going to the door and knocking...then his usual comment is now I know the feeling.
Yes, I do. It is horrible. I have experienced the awful pain of being rejected by your spouse again and again. Without the inward strength in me it would be unbearable.
I am willing to "just do it". Because I love him. Because I am commited to him. I am willing to come up with a plan. I think about during it the man I love and know him to be...I absolutely block out the words that have been spoken to me that are still unresolved...I do so endeavoring to try and mend hurt between us.
I agree that the biggest love buster was the rejection of sex that I gave to B. I didn't know what I was doing. It is the biggest regret of my life.
Talking about this R on this board...again, here..over and over...it stirs it up and his anger toward the situation comes out.
I'm just willing to forget it. The problem is that I do smile and I can be courteous and love him truly...but I am not being honest. So how is there intimacy without honesty? But my honesty causes him to withdraw.
We did not have a lack of lovemaking the last withdrawel it was my upset before the holidays. It was my fault, had I cherished what we had I would not have allowed that to happen.
How would I come across as giving mercy sex? Can you tell me? I've asked B and he won't say. Of course, laying there like a limp dishrag. But would you say that me suggesting a position of both of us giving each other oral sex at the same time would be hot? Well, I did. I suggested it because I was hot. I suggested it because it turns me on. I've told B. It was fantastic. No, I cannot bring him to O through Oral. I'm sorry, I don't know that I care to. I'm not saying no. I just don't know.
I'm not saying that I can't learn and improve. Of course I can. I need too. I want to make him happy. I love him.
I am so sorry for hurting B and offending him on this board. I won't do what I feel like, I'll do what is right..but if I acted on my feelings...I'd just quit.
I know I am blabbering and I'm not even going to edit this. Thank you for listening.
Quote: Thankfully he agreed to scheduled sex in December. He agreed at the time that things were better and on track. Then the incident and then we are back here again.
Then he said that he didn't enjoy the sex because we didn't connect. It wasn't were I want to be, but I absolutely had a great time. We laughed, kissed wonderfully, tried a new position, played a romance game...wow! His kisses were awesome. I did so because I wanted to show him that I want to try, I want him to feel wanted...because that is the truth. He is the only man I want...and my God..is he ever wantable!!!!
Perhaps this time it will be a bit different by going forward with the recognition that there's 17 years of rejection and another 7 years of resentment & anger and that sexual/emotional nirvana is not going to be reached in one lovemaking session.
You don't get into bed with each other with that kind of history and easily get a connection. Frankly, I think initially the best you can hope for is a spouse that is willing to be there with you. And I mean in a fuller sense than just showing up physically. It sounds like that's what you did.
I'm guessing that as the two of you heal your daily interactions with each other while continuing to ML, that the emotional connection during sex will grow.
Assessing the quality of the sexual connection is going to be an exercise in futility, Barney. You're hauling a boat-load of resentment & frustration probably with a dash of "HD women swallow" into the bed with you and NG. That's a recipe for dissatisfaction.
Doesn't mean that the two of you can't work toward improving some aspects of your LM, but you can't let the idea of sexual gourmet meals make you unhappy with basic meat & potatoes sex.
Quote: He has not talked with me about any of this. But his last position was that he did not want to have sex with me. I"ve approached him when he has said that before...even dressed in some black outfit trying to seduce him and he's turned me down. I've been rejected by him in so many other ways...this too...I can't keep going to the door and knocking...then his usual comment is now I know the feeling.
Barney will have to examine his heart and determine what is motivating him to refuse sex with you. He may be p*ssed at the past, he may be p*ssed off at your temper, he may be p*ssed at you for not following through on earlier attempts to get on board.
He may be operating under the belief that you haven't paid enough for his pain. On the other hand, he may actually be approaching your relationship in a low-drive sort of way. LDs are often affected sexually by the status of the relationship. Perhaps Barney isn't interested in ML because the relationship is impacting his sex drive. He needs to answer that.
Quote: I am willing to "just do it". Because I love him. Because I am commited to him. I am willing to come up with a plan. I think about during it the man I love and know him to be...I absolutely block out the words that have been spoken to me that are still unresolved...I do so endeavoring to try and mend hurt between us.
The reality is that at some point Barney needs to answer for what he has said to you.
Rejection is damaging. So are mean words. The rejection in the past was from ignorance. What's is going on today isn't from a place of ignorance.
Quote:
I agree that the biggest love buster was the rejection of sex that I gave to B. I didn't know what I was doing. It is the biggest regret of my life.
Talking about this R on this board...again, here..over and over...it stirs it up and his anger toward the situation comes out.
I'm just willing to forget it. The problem is that I do smile and I can be courteous and love him truly...but I am not being honest. So how is there intimacy without honesty? But my honesty causes him to withdraw.
It's a matter of timing, NG.
Barney has got to judge you less harshly. He has to be quicker to forgive. You've got to be a woman of your word, expressing yourself through your actions. It would be great if you would both both "bow the knee" at the same time.
If Barney refuses to get on board and work on this recovery, then you must do the right thing whether or not he chooses to do so.
You're going to have to continue to put your hurt to the side. You are going to have to share your hurts with a trusted female friend or advisor, I would no longer share them with Barney. You're going to have to watch your tongue and your temper. I would pray constantly "Let the words of my mouth and the meditations of my heart be acceptible in thy sight, Oh Lord, my strength and my redeemer." If he won't get on with the process, I suggest that you make a pact with yourself that you will approach him for sex at least once a week. When/if he rejects you, just rinse and repeat.
When NOP and I worked through this, I knew that he was holding back, judgement-wise. As I've said before, every time I failed to follow through it would set us back some. But not for weeks. After our various blowups, we would fallback, regroup and come at it again in just a matter of hours, sometimes a couple of days. You can't get mad at each other for weeks/months. And NOP was working on his own contributions to our problems. We didn't get it right the first time. Or the second time, etc. If we had stopped during one of those failures, we would still be in the busted-a$$ marriage we used to have, just with a few more years of anger/resentment/bitterness.
It could be a case of miscommunication, but I don't get the impression that Barney is working on his current contributions to the relationship, I'm not even sure that he acknowledges that he is making negative contributions. Barney, please correct me if I have misread. It may be that he is (as HP referenced) too ticked off to make any attempt to work on the marriage.
Quote: "Let the words of my mouth and the meditations of my heart be acceptible in thy sight, Oh Lord, my strength and my redeemer."
These words can apply to all our sitchs.
I don't mind the sun sometime
The images it shows
I can taste you on my lips
And smell you in my clothes
Cinnamon and Sugar
And softly spoken lies
You never know just how you look
Through someone elses eyes
BHS-"Pepper"
Nice, I've been thinking a lot about your situation. My husband has a hard time expressing his wants to me, in a way that I can understand it. He tends to get tongue tied or flustered. I never really have been able to deduce--from his own words--what they are, but I pay close attention to what works with him and what doesn't, and have a pretty good idea of what they are anyway.
What he has told me is this: He wants me to be happy.
That's it!
Can you imagine such a simple request? I can't! My own list is, ahem, quite a bit longer than that. Since I am by nature a cheerful person, this is not too terribly difficult for me, but there are days when it's hard. I am at home 24/7 with small children. I rarely get a break from them and, boy, does that wear me down on those days.
Here is what I was able to figure out with my h: He likes me to be smiling when he walks in the door. IOW, he wants me to be HAPPY to see HIM. He waits all day to see me, races home, and then to be met with a scowling or irritable wife just sucks the life out of him. It does not matter if the irritation is not due to him, or directed at him. He feels it. He feels, rationally or no, that it is a failure on his part, somehow.
He wants affection from me when he arrives. A hug and a kiss. Warmth. Eye contact. IOW, the same things that my kids want when they've been gone from me all day. (which is rare. Have I mentioned that, lol)
He wants my appreciation and validation of him as a provider, a husband, a father, a handyman, a MAN. I've been doing an experiment for about 2 months now in which I really crank up the WOA with him. It is working! I almost wish Barney wasn't reading this, so that you could give it a whirl too. My H recoils at WOA, so I knew it wasn't technically his love language, but it is something that he craves nonetheless. He wants to know that I appreciate him, that I value him and think he's good at life. I do this by giving compliments...you know the ones..where you are thinking something nice but for whatever reason you don't actually say it out loud? Well I now say it out loud. It makes him uncomfortable but so what. I want him to know that I think he's the cat's meow! Mostly I do it in nonverbal ways though. I smile at him, laugh at his jokes, AFFIRM him whenever I can. I pat his back as he's doing the dishes. I send him sweet emails during the day. I flirt with him. I ask him about his day. If he's playing Sullen Teenager and says "It was fine", I then say "what did you have for lunch?" LOL, I really do! I know it is completely inane, but I keep at him until we have a dialogue going on about his day. IOW, I show interest in him as a person and not solely as an entity of our family. I thank him for changing diapers, even though he's technically obligated to do that.
All of these things have had the effect that he WANTS to be here. He feels good around me. He wants to do more and more for me. He runs baths for me at the end of the night, that sort of thing. Last night, he jumped up from dinner because I mentioned that I meant to pour myself a glass of wine. He did it and brought it to me and toasted me.
Affirming him has really worked well.
What is your home atmosphere like? When Barn gets home, are you happy to see him? Do you ask about his day? Do you make eye contact and smile or flirt? Is it harriedness and rushing here and there and snappishness? I only ask that because I am thinking of my SIL..not because of anything you've actually written, btw.
Barney has written that he wants to feel respected. I think we can boil that down to: he wants a wife who is happy and affirms him.
I know what I wrote above sounds very 1950's housewife, but that makes it no less true. Anyone who has been gone from loved ones wants to feel welcomed upon their return. They want the feeling of being missed and that their spouse is happy to see them.
Some days it is a massive struggle for me to put on a happy face when H comes home. Sometimes I just can't do it and I will meet him at the door, defeated, and say "I'm having a hard day. It's not you, but I'm just really crabby." I am not attacking him..I'm not yelling at him, I'm just plain old Honey having a bad day. He jumps into action, trying to help me. Other times I am mad as a wet hen and excessively p*ssy and he escalates right along with me..soaking up and leaking out my bad mood, right back at me.
One thing I've started doing is emailing him if things are difficult. That way, he knows what to expect. I never blame him, I just flat out say what is buggin me. "D2 drew all over herself and the carpet with a black marker and I've spent way too much time with Resolve today. I don't feel like making supper and I want to read my new magazine, alone, as soon as you get home today." (btw, that is an actual incident from last week) He did as I asked--because I really believe that most men just want to make their wives happy. They want to know: What are her expectations and what is the time frame, so I can pull it off without a hitch.
Can you start communicating more effectively with Barney to let him know when you are having a bad day? That means, CHECK YOUR ANGER at the door when you're telling him about it. He's not the source and he's on your side. Give him the option of being your teammate against the world, instead of one more thing that you're irritated with. Kwim?
Also, I've mentioned this before, what can you do to alleviate or eliminate some of the stress in your daily routine?
Honey, this is really great stuff. One of the things I would strive for was a peaceful home. I think we all need a place of refuge, I wanted that place to be our home.
I totally agree with having the "it's us against them" attitude - there's a certain bonding that occurs when you become a team in that way.
That post was very good. I am very envious of your husband right now. The things you talk about here I so wish my W would do those things. That would really make me want to come home to.
I apologize for being sarcastic. I realize that it's counterproductive to our R.
I did so because I was angry at your response. You have a right to respond any way you choose, and my anger is my problem. I'm sorry for doing it and it won't happen again.
Did we ever tell you about the time that I told NOP to "Just go get yourself a f*ckbuddy!"?
There's going to be some anger & some sarcasm. You guys aren't perfect. The goal is to start minimizing those and then "cleanup on aisle 9" when the tarpit overflows.
Come back to it when the emotion has cooled a bit (and I don't mean so cold that it has solidified into glacier status).
NG has asked some questions regarding the tone of your days. Perhaps having goals similar to our dear HP's would address the sense you feel pervades your relationship. So, do you think you can come up with some input?
I know sometimes it feels like you're saying the same things over and over. The really weird thing about humans is that we can keep NOT getting it and then suddenly it clicks. Maybe this is that time.
Quote: Did we ever tell you about the time that I told NOP to "Just go get yourself a f*ckbuddy!"?
ROTFLMAO. I wonder if NOPkins f*ckbuddy hangs out at the same bar as my dumb f*ck boyfriend. I'm curious about what NOPkin's response to that one was. My H pretty much stopped talking about my dumb f*ck boyfriend when I informed him that I had no intention of just looking for a partner for sex if we broke up and my hope would be to form a new long term relationship with someone who was nice to me and wanted to have sex with me.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Mrs.NOP wrote: NG has asked some questions regarding the tone of your days. Perhaps having goals similar to our dear HP's would address the sense you feel pervades your relationship. So, do you think you can come up with some input? ----------------
Sure. It would be my pleasure.
-------------
NG asked: Do you think that I have improved at all in that regard? Has the frequency of losing my temper gotten less?
Do you ever lose you temper? Do you ever lose your patience with me or the kids and speak to us in an unkind manner? If you do, do you acknowledge that you did and apologize? -------------
You have clearly improved in not letting your temper get out of control. You've only lost it a few times in the last few months.
I sometimes lose my patience with you and the kids. I try to apologize whenever I realize it. An example is when we were coming back from skiing the day after you called me a liar in front of the kids. I was still upset about it and spoke sharply to you. You called me on it and I apologized. -------------
NG asked: Barney, when did I say I was happier when you were gone and not at home? I cannot imagine saying such a thing. If I did, I sure don't remember saying it... ------------------
During one of your blow-ups. I had been gone somewhere the week before. You told me how that wasn't who you really are, that you're normally a happy person and that you and the kids had a peaceful week without me. You commented that it was great. --------------
NG asked: People on this thread see the picture of my outbursts as bi-polar, manic depressive etc. Do you feel like I am that extreme? -----------------------
I did at one time. You've shown in the last few months that it's not outside of your control. ---------------
NG said: So when I am looking at the overall attitude that you spoke about I don't personally think it is as bad as you do. That is my opinion. I think I am measuring up to what you said.
Please help me...what specifically am I doing wrong? ----------
Perhaps you should re-read the two points I wrote. #1 was, Lose the Temper. I didn't accuse of you losing it every day. I didn't take time to say how much better it is now than it used to be. I simply said that losing it is the ultimate deal-breaker.
I meant exactly what I said in both. I need to know that you're not going to lose it on me again. If you can choose not to lose it but once a month, then you can choose to not lose it at all.
Whether you think it fair or not, I brace for you losing it every time your voice rises. I do so because I can't risk it happening and not being prepared for it. --------------
NG wrote: WHen you say generally I am not happy...I don't see it as such. -----------------
You have made some improvements here as well as with your temper. I appreciate it!
This goes back to the beginning of our R, unfortunately. When I approached you in an unwelcome manner sexually, you began developing an "air of displeasure" regarding me. I came to think it was to provide incentive for me to change, but I don't know what you meant to convey by it. I brought it up many times in connection with your criticism of me.
I don't need to hear from you that I'm doing well, how I look, etc. I would prefer not to. It's more about your general demeanor than words. It's definitely non-verbal communication. ---------------
NG asked: But specifically what am I doing each day or every other day or every three days that is hurting our R? -------------------
You don't touch me. You don't fix up for me. You don't flirt with me. From my POV, there's very little femininity or sensuality in our M, and hasn't been for a long time. Most of what I think is fun has been declared off limits. For me, those are things that create a happy atmosphere in the home and show me that my W is happy.
I would feel very much like your father who provides for you a comfortable life and home, except that you like him a whole lot more. So, I can't be myself and can't be whoever it is you want me to be. That communicates displeasure pretty clearly. ------------------
NG wrote: Sometimes, to my knowledge, I have just said in a normal tone of voice that I was overwhelmed. When I have, you took it personally that I was blaming you for it. ------------------
Tone of voice isn't the only factor in communicating. When you keep your voice calm but begin a litany of all the things you have to do, including the ones you seem to be taking personally because they involve me and the kids, I've sometimes gotten upset. Everybody's busy. I'm not willing to take the blame for your schedule when I'm offering to help you.
As I've told you before, if you'd tell me, "This has nothing to do with you, but I'm swamped. Could you do XYZ for me?", you'd get results every time. Maybe hearing it from HP is easier than from me.
Those are all the questions/issues I could find from your previous posts. Please forgive me if I've overlooked any.
