During my marriage I used to have to come up with creative ways to initiate sex. It kind of helped my pride to be creative instead of just coming out and saying, "hey will you please screw me?
I used to say to my ex, at times..."hey big boy, I'm getting laid Saturday night, you are welcome to be there if you would like." Usually did it in my best May West voice. I thought it was cute, it saved face for me because it kept the begging to a minimum and I thought the man knew me well enough to know he was the only person I was interested in having sex with on Saturday night or any other night.
When he left he accused me of verbal abuse and used that statement as an example of abuse. I have been told today on the board by a man that it was abusive and my true intent was to force him to have sex when he didn't want to and it is an example of spousal rape. OUCH!!
What I want to know is this...if your wife came up to you and said those exact words to you would you feel abused or would you feel she was threatening to find someone else if you didn't show for the Saturday romp or would you view it as a cute, playful way for your wife to initiate sex?
Coming out of lurkitude to answer this one, Cathy. Of course I'd love it if my wife said this to me.
Spousal rape? Who is the idiot that compared your statement to spousal rape? Whoever it was is doing a large disservice to actual victims of actual spousal rape. Verbal abuse? Jeeze! Some people have no fcuking idea.
Manipulative? Well, maybe a little, but in a cute, funny way. All he had to say was "no." But you weren't holding a gun to his head.
Hairdog, who wishes his wife could do the Mae West impression.
My goodness, this guy must have had a long vacation from his cojones to have said something that pathetic.
If the word "rape" is to have any meaning and any serious consequences, then it should not be bandied about to describe totally non-rape situations.
At worst, ex could have inferred that you intended to have an affair if he did not comply with your wishes, so you may have been raping someone else, but not your ex.
If my wife said those exact words, she had better show up on Saturday!!!
Quote: I thought the man knew me well enough to know he was the only person I was interested in having sex with on Saturday night or any other night.
The problem with initiating this way is in the above part of the quotation. Him knowing you well enough has nothing to do with how he reacted. Either he didn't want to and felt like ignoring it was the way to go, or perhaps it didn't come off as playful as you thought.
If it didn't work the first time, then you should have asked what was up and taken it from there. Under no circumstances would I have said it again--that would have clearly been manipulation and a semi-emasculating kind at that. But spousal rape?!?!?!?! No way, no how!
Honeypot, who is guilty of the semi-hostile initiation myself after one too many nights of being ignored.
P.S. blow off the poster who said it was rape. That's ludicrous.
The "spousal rape" comment is total Barbara Streisand! You were initiating in what you believed to be a creative way. He could have told you at the time what his preferences were, if he didn't like your method.
A secure man would even be OK with hearing, "Hey big boy, I'm planning to rape you Saturday night! Be afraid! Be VERY afraid!"
Hmmmm...I guess it depends on how well you two communicated and the state of mind your H was in, I could see taking that one either way. No offense to you at all, but I personally would say "excuse me?" and ask what you really meant. I would never say anything like that myself because of the potential for misunderstanding. But that's me.
It's hearsay in court unless he has a record or witness of you saying this. Are you being deposed by his attorney or something?
Cathy, I had to respond on the other thread to his statement. I'm sure it will inspire more comments from you know who. Geeze, my XH would have loved that coming from me. Jill Crap, bring me two Absoluts and cranberrys. Hmmmmph!!!
Thanks guys, I have to admit, it is very disconcerting to be accused of rape. I've asked this opinion before of close male friends and I've NEVER had anyone of them tell me they would view it as abusive and certainly the word rape has never come up.
My sense of humor clearly shows through in my technique and it can be a bit self-depricating. I guess what I was attempting to do is make fun of the situation and, in turn, end up having a little fun.
honeypot, he never ignored me, he always laughed and giggled and showed up on Saturday night. Now, this might have happened 4 times a year. It wasn't something I said every Wednesday night to the man and no one could have been more surprised than me when, after years of a little Saturday night fun I was accused of abuse. I continued to use this little, playful way of initiating because he responded to it in a positive way.
I can't be held responsible for the fact that he ignored his own feelings in preference to mine....4 times a year
I think, in the long run it was just used as justification for him leaving the marriage and once I got over the shock of him saying it was abuse I felt good that that was the worst example of abuse he could come up with.
I guess, somewhere inside there is still some sensitivity to the accusation cause when this person wrote what he did I became faint. I quite literally felt light headed at being accused of such a thing. Maybe some wounds never heal huh? I just have to learn to deal better when they are brought to the surface. Thanks ya'll!!
Quote: No offense to you at all, but I personally would say "excuse me?" and ask what you really meant. I would never say anything like that myself because of the potential for misunderstanding. But that's me.
No offense taken stu. If I'm faced with a comment or situation that causes me to feel uncomfortable then that is exactly what I would do..."excuse me?" He never once did that though so I foolishly assumed that his reaction to my playfullness was an honest representation of his feelings. Stupid me!!
I was always under the impression that we had great communication skills. He used to comment on how thankful he was that we could talk through our problems. I found out later that there was no real honest communication and, as far as the state of his mind, I don't think there is anyone on earth who will ever be privy to what really goes on in my ex husband's mind. He only reveals what he thinks you want to hear, the rest is a mystery.
No depositions, all that ended long ago. It's funny cause when I told my attorney about this particular accusation she started praying that he would actually say it in open court. She said that one statement would show how clearly insane he was. According to her the judge we had was very high drive. It didn't come up in court and it's a good thing cause the last thing I would want is preferintial treatment from a judge
Qoe, I'm strictly a pepsi girl these days. I'll be the designated driving and will live vicariously through your alcohol skewed view of life. Thanks for sticking up for me. Now I need to go and see what the response was. I can just imagine! Cathy
Cathy, What I have found out with my LDH is that any comment that includes other people offends him. If we had a problem-free sex life, I doubt he'd feel this way. But since he feels inadequate in this area, he is very sensitive to these types of remarks--jokes or not.
And, what I honestly think is that it's one of those "jokes but not really" comments. You know what I mean? And, again, I'm not coming down on you at all..I've done this more times than I could count. But I have stopped cause I realized that I would not have reacted well to this strategy myself. Not in the sexual arena but in the other arenas in which I have had to improve myself in order to meet his needs. If he had said, I'm doing xyz on Saturday night..you can be there if you'd like...I would have felt....gosh...pressure. Manipulated. Inadequate. Threatened.
If he simply said, I want to do xyz on Saturday night with you. Will you come? I may not have come, to be honest. But I would have lost the comfy position from which to say, "Well I would have, except that he asked in such a manipulative way--it just ruined everything."
It is so so so so hard for me to be upfront with my sexual wants. I cannot stand to be rejected (neither can he, but that's another story) so I tend to do it in a roudabout way, rather than direct. This is MY problem, though.
Here is something to chew on: We have an agreement to spend 30 minutes together after our kids are in bed. He came in last night while I was nursing the baby. He made it crystal clear that he was there out of duty. It was thinly (and I mean thin) veiled hostility. He was still his cheerful self but there was an undercurrent of resentment and pissiness that was unmistakable. He wanted to go to bed, but he felt pressured to stay awake and spend time with me. Finally I said, "I have no interest in your semi-hostile offering of spending time with me." What I'm getting at is that probably you and your exH are at fault in the above example. You really shouldn't have included other people in your initiations, given the circumstances between you two. (you being the HD partner and him knowing that he was not meeting your needs) And for his part, if he had a problem with it, he should have called you on it instead of going along with it and becoming eaten alive with resentment.
I have finally learned to recognize what my H looks like when he is in the throes of resentment. I think women are much easier to figure out in this regard, don't you! We pout, sulk, whatever. My H was fully prepared to go along with the 30 minute plan last night, though he was inwardly seething with resentment. Luckily I can see that now..and called him on it right away. I have no idea what to do NOW, but at least I didn't accept his crap offering, cause then I'd be feeling bad right along with him.
In the final analysis, I'd agree with you: He was really stretching to find some way in which you abused him. He may not have liked the way you phrased it, but he is a big boy and should have put a voice to that dislike at the time it happened.
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