I thank you for all the concern. Maybe what I shouls try to make clear is that the problem is not just about the physical act of sex. That is only where it is most obvious. The problem is that when my wife lost her desire for sex, it affected EVERY part of her personality. It is just amazing to see how a persons sex drive really drives WHO they are. I think of this as the HD or LD personality. Michelle describes it in her book, LD women also become LD for affection. In effect, their love language is definitely NOT physical touch. For some people on her, the problem is JUST the sex part. For me, it is virtuatlly everything about the relationship, and it is all being driven by HER sex drive. I would kill to hold hands, to kiss her passionately (it has been many years), to cuddle on the couch, to flirt, to be PLAYFUL. This is all stuff outside the bedroom. It is a little hard to do this with a women whose love language is probably financial security.
Do I want to lose her? Not yet. But I can see the day when the kids are gone that staying with her would be a very undesireable option. Why would anyone want to stay in a roomate relationship? Heck, after reading PM, I know that I want a PM. But how the heck do you get there with someone that does not have the slightest sex drive? For this to work out in the end, she has some mighty big demons to face. So here I am in my boat by myself trying to figure out what change I can make in myself that might actually make her want to face her own demons. Lets face it, us HD guys have very little leverage with our wives, while they have tons of leverage with us(sex).
I must ask this again. Have you spelled things out for her? Have you had that heart-to-heart yet? Have you really told her how this affects you? It's a difficult thing to do, having a conversation like that, but it's absolutely necessary.
CeMar, I don't believe that you can fix this on your own. I find it highly unlikely that without communicating your hurt/rejection/frustration to your W that she's going to buy in that this is really a problem and figure out for herself if she wants to help fix the situation.
If you try to do this entire thing by yourself, without verbalizing to her clearly & concisely how this affects you may just end up pushing her further away. Because so many times I've noticed when I try to take things on by myself where my H & I are concerned....I only end up pushing him away.
CeMar...I know that if I hadn't flat-out told my H that this had become a BIG problem for me...we'd still be where we were a year ago and I'd still be miserable. I can tell you for sure that if he hadn't understood that this is really a problem we would have definitely ended up divorced. Sure we stumble now, we both still get very frustrated with each other over this whole thing, but we're headed in the right direction.
I know you occassionally take a beating around here for your stance...but I wanted you to know that you are certainly not alone in how you feel.
Quote: I would kill to hold hands, to kiss her passionately (it has been many years), to cuddle on the couch, to flirt, to be PLAYFUL. This is all stuff outside the bedroom. It is a little hard to do this with a women whose love language is probably financial security.
I feel exactly the same way in my m.
Quote: Lets face it, us HD guys have very little leverage with our wives, while they have tons of leverage with us(sex).
It's not just the hd guys that have this problem as you no doubt by now know. I have no leverage with my h and it hurts all the more because well let's face it there are some societal beliefs that all men want is sex and since I'm a perfectly desireable woman why the heck doesn't my h want me?
Quote: So here I am in my boat by myself trying to figure out what change I can make in myself that might actually make her want to face her own demons.
Now see that's part of the problem...if you are busy trying to figure out what changes will elicit changes in her your not going to get anywhere but further frustrated. Why not instead figure out what changes can make YOU happy that can help you to face whatever deamons you might have. Now of course that may sound like I'm suggesting you become ld yourself...bah to that..it wont work. But it may make you feel better to focus on bettering the other areas of your life that may or may not include w. And in the end who knows a happier more relaxed you may just be the incentive w needs to face her own demons.
Trying to explain sexual fullfillment to ND women is about like trying to explain a 4 dimensional object in a 3 dimensional universe. In her universe, she has no concept of desire. She makes statements like "You just want sex". She thinks I need sex, she has no clue as to what sexual fulfillment really is. She thinks that as long as she provides her body for my use once a month, she is doing her part. At the same time, I can not list EVERYTHING that I want her to change, because at this point, the list from her perspective would be unattainable. So I can't scare her off with all of my wants at this point.
And the worst part of all, whenever we have tried even simple things, like a kiss, it is always obvious that she is patronizing me, she is not doing it because she wants to. And using my wife in these ways is VERY unappealing.
You are missing GEL's point. You are not listing for her what you want her to change. It can be a very short conversation.
"I am miserable in our marriage and with our life. I will stay as long as I can, but I cannot say how long that will be."
You don't need to outline for her HOW to change things. That is up to her. What you need to communicate in no uncertain terms is that you have reached the end of your rope, and that you are barely hanging on.
You do not solve these problems in one conversation. But what everyone is telling you that I don't think you are hearing is, "YOUR WIFE HAS NO IDEA HOW MISERABLE YOU ARE."
This is not about getting her to see things YOUR way and becoming who she once was. She needs to understand that her marriage is on the line.
Does she pay any household bills?
Are your financial accounts joint or separate?
I know you don't believe in divorce, but have you considered separating, even for a few weeks, just to underscore your point? Are you willing to go to a marriage counselor if she agrees to go with you? Are you willing to go alone?
Dave, Is there any secret to getting bike pedals off?
I tried today and couldn't get the suckers to budge. It is a regular old huffy bicycle. I was using a wrench, btw. I asked my H to do it last night but he got home too late and didn't want to mess with it. We are having an unseasonably warm week and I want to practice no training wheels while I can.
When she kisses you in what you describe as a patronizing manner...do you tell her that, that is unacceptable? Or do you say nothing and get angry about it?
If I understand your last post correctly...you have talked to her, at least in some fashion...but even in your post you're pretty vague CeMar as to what you've said. You leave me wondering if your conversations (as well intentioned as they may be) end up that vague as well...what exactly did you talk about? How specific were you with her? I have to wonder if she isn't thinking that you come at her with all this stuff she's not doing....so where does she start? If she tries to tackle all of it, it seems impossible...so it's easier not to do anything.
In short...I don't think your wife really understands her marriage to you is in jeapordy.
I guess what I'm saying here is this. Tell her the two of you need to sit down and have a serious talk about your R, make a date to do this...after the kids are in bed, whatever. Tell her you need to explain how the lack of "intimacy" affects you. I say intimacy because your issue is more than sex. Spell it out...and then ask her if she wants this marriage to work. If so ask her to pick something you've listed that she's willing to work on and work on that. Then when that improves (hopefully) you pick something else and so on. Tackle these things systematically. Who knows it may work.
One more thing...on the kissing issue. Are you sure you are kissing her the way she likes to be kissed? That's not to say you are a bad kisser...but some people like different styles better. Some women like to be kissed hard, some don't. Some like nibbling, others like their lips sucked on a little...stuff like that.
The trick with pedals is that it's not "lefty-loosy, righty tighty". The threads are reversed to prevent the pedal from unscrewing from the bike during normal riding.
Before I go into a long description, I'll just give you a link to the best resource for this....
The best thing to remember.... * Loosen by turning your wrench (which would be in the 12 o'clock position) away from the front of the bike. * Tighten by turning the wrench towards the front of the bike.
If the bike is old, the threads might have siezed...spray some tri-flow or other lubricant (not wd-40) which will penetrate the seals. You may even need to bang the wrench with a hammer to get it to move.
Good luck. Pedals can be a nightmare.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
