During a lesson today, the phone rang and I just let it ring. Later in the evening, it rang again, and it was H.
He said, I tried ringing you earlier, were you teaching? I said, yes.
He said, have you got time to listen to something? I said, go ahead, I have five mintutes till the next student turns up. (It is good H 'sees' that I am busy and working...)
So he proceeded to tell me about one of his project ideas. At one point, he said, this is probably boring for you.... but I said, no, do carry on.... and after five minutes my student arrived, so I told him I had to hang up but would speak to him later tonight.
So, after D was in bed, I rang H again, and said, where were we in the conversation?
H said, oh, it was not important, but anyway we carried on with the convo, it was all about H and his project ideas. The only other thing we talked about was the weather (very cold) and D a bit. (Wonder when I 'll get a chance to talk about me.....???? ) Then after ten minutes or so, H said, well, I'll be in touch tomorrow again... ( ???)
I said, OK, goodnight!
And that was that.
I have felt really really sleepy all day, it was all I could do to stay awake throughout the various lessons I had! AND I went to bed qutie early last night!
I have no energy or bright ideas about being mysterious, but maybe tomorrow evening I could go to a film with my friend. At least GAL!
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
I didn't hear from H all day yesterday, although he mentioned the day before he would get in touch, and also I was expecting to hear about when he would arrive.
So I emailed him at 8 a.m. this morning. I heard nothing, and was wondering whether to just ring him (didn't want to appear anxious) but at 10 a.m. he called, having 'just' read my email, and asking if it was OK to arrive at 12 noon. So, he is already in the city (he told me) and it doesn't take too much to deduce he was staying last night with OW1.
There was a pause before I manage to reply, OK. I admit, although I suspected this because of his silence yesterday, it STILL hurts and throws me off balance.
Look everyone, I have to ask myself - is being open to H getting me anywhere, except just being walked all over?
Gotta go and 'tidy up' stuff I don't wish H to see around the house, like all my recent book purchases on MLC...
Livnlearn
PS I suppose if I declined to have H stay here, he would stay with OW1 every time he came down to the city and then insist on taking D to visit with him there - yuck!
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Remember no expectations!!! You have been making progress with H lately, I wouldn't let that change. Keep on doing what you have been doing for a while. That doesn't mean be a doormat, just don't rock your boat too much yet. You know, friendly detachment.
When you can't make a decision because you are torn between your heart and your head, listen to the half with the brain.
And no ASSumptions, okay? You don't know for sure where he was - or WHY he was. Maybe OW1 is being desperate and clingy and needy, and maybe he HATES having to go over there and talk her down.
Just keep your expectations down and your PMA up, okay?
LNL--I've been reading (okay, lurking) but not finding much to say lately. Mostly on your thread because you've been making some astounding progress and seem to have a good handle on things... up until now.
I second (well, third) what Pattie and Ellie are saying.
Remember, NO TEMPERATURE CHECKING! You've made amazing progress on dropping expectations and assumptions. So don't go back on a path that didn't work before.
Now, focus on what has worked recently. What were you doing or not doing that made things better?
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Nice to have all your visits, sometimes I feel like I am just journaling to myself, which is no bad thing.
About H's visit - where do I start? No, nothing 'happened' really, it was just a depressing visit. (WARNING - long post!)
H turned up not long after his call (he sure leaves things to the last minute, and I am just supposed to be there ready for him?) and seemed very distracted and distant. I didn't get much eye contact from him nor my usual kiss on both cheeks. I had got over my yucky feeling and said, hi, brightly, I thought. H offered no explanation about where he had been, and I didn't ask.
We had lunch, and he said it was nice. Afterwards he checked his email, and at one point he whacked his computer. I looked surprised and asked him if that was the way to get it to work? (Genuine question here, not sacrcastic!) He said, no, it wasn't. I asked if anything was the matter, and he said, no, nothing. He then wiped a tear from the corner of his eye. I let it go, but I think he was reacting to something he read on his computer.
Another time we were talking about this trip - he is going to see his friend who is well set up in the field that H wants to break into, and his friend is helping him. He said he was very pessimistic that any good would come of it. He said he thought his work was good, but it never ever got anywhere. He sounded utterly depressed and down. I tried to tell him that lots of successful creative people started out in their careers with lots of rejections, but they poughed on until they were accepted. He kind of replied, yeah, whatever.
I hadn't got much work on Thursday, so we watched a new DVD H had bought after that. But before the end he left to go and meet a friend of his (guy and his wife) in town, that he had arranged earlier. It was snowing and afterwards he went and picked up D who was playing at a friend's house after school. We had dinner.
The usual scene - H says, I won't eat anything, don't make anything for me. (He says he doesn't sleep well if he eats a full meal in the evening.) I make enough for three nevertheless, and of course H starts taking forkfuls out of D's plate, and then asks, is there any for me? So he eats a helping and says it is nice. H tells me he hardly eats any fresh vegetables up at his place, they are so bulky to carry down on foot from the nearest shop. (7kms) My fixit nature suggests he buys a couple of packets of frozen peas/broccoli etc, they last and taste good and there's no wastage, hence they are compact. He sorts of says, yeah..... Then I remember not to suggest things to him!
Next morning, I take D to school, do some shopping and H sees me walking on foot (too snowy for the bike) and calls from the balcony, you should have called me to help you with that! I say, it is OK. Later we go for a walk through the park, on our way to our respective appointments. During the walk, he starts to say something, I ask what he wants to say, he starts with saying how dificcult and strange it is to start a new 'career' (his latest project work) then segues straight away to how humiliating it is not having enough money, however hard he works, there is never enough, he has to pay a tax bill. I just listen. I have no idea whether these days he still resents having to pay as much as he does to this household. He pays all of D's expenses and just over half of the mortgage. I have to find the rest - the rest of the mortgage, all household bills and my expenses.
H talked about how he has no money to buy his friend a present, - the one he is visiting this week in the other country. By the way, he was going on and on about how expensive the train fare was, I told him about some special offers I had seen advertised - I told him months ago - that he claims are all hogwash. I found the offer online at home, though as the offer is limited, you need to book earlier than just the day before travel. He managed to find a cheaper fare in the end, than the one he expected.
At one point, H was playing with D in the other room and D was saying, "What would you do without me Dad!" in the context of her telling him something useful, and I heard H reply, well, I would have a lot more money, for a start...
Anyway, Friday I made a nice lunch - homemade pizza and H said it was very good. I had made enough to leave some for D at dinner time. But H picked at it throughout the day, and I had to tell him to please leave some for D. Stuff like this never seems to occur to H, he just helps himself. This is the narcissist in him.
The whole two days he didn't lift a finger to help with cooking or clearing up or washing up. He leaves used glasses, ashtrays, chocolate wrappers, discarded packaging from his purchases etc all over the place.
He said when he returns from his trip on Thursday, he was thinking of delaying his return till the Saturday, when he and D could get a lift up to his place with the landlord. I pointed out that THIS weekend was his (to have D), that he had specifically ASKED us to change around weekends earlier. In fact, when he told me he was going away this weekend, it is not as if he apologised about not having D as he was scheduled or anything, he just seems to think that I am infinitly flexible. He then said, well, we'll discuss it when I get back. (Is he just a totally selfish man to want to take D up?) H said, as regards the daughter of w3 being available to play with D - I don't know what is up with her and her boyfriend - meaning about weekends, what? It may be that the boyfriend is not so thrilled at H being around w3 much.
Another time we were looking at a dog running around, and H said, I wish I were a dog, they just have fun and are always optimistic. I said, oh, maybe you'll be reincarnated as a dog! (for fun) and H replied, Oh God no, I don't want to be reincarnated, that would be terrible, this life is enough... (said in weary tone)
In another conversation, we were talking about films, but he said - well, you know what marriages are like, and laughed hollowly.
We had an 'argument' (discussion) about romantic comedies vs action films. I stated at one pont that action films appealed more to males and romantic comedies to females, and he rolled his eyes and his face took on an expression of utter weary contempt/derision and he mumbled, "oh no, not that 'men are different from women' stuff again..." in a very negative way. I said, you don't like romantic comedies, do you? He replied, no, I despise most of them...and we carried on for a little bit. H really feels his mind is open and he is 'honest', but it appears to me he can be profoundly prejudiced and unthinking, in fact. This comes out when you say something that conflicts with his view of the world. He feels free to 'despise' much about the world. This reminds me of something I read in an article about MLC. It was written in a funny/serious way, and said that these guys in MLC are supremely arrogant and talk as if they are geniuses and everyone else has the intellegence of a protozoa. H has always been arrogant, but it is much worse now. confused:
Other things that happened over the two days - once when D was rude to me, H took it up with her and said that she was not to be rude to her mother, and really took her to task for it. That felt good. Only thing is, he never knows when he is being rude and abrasive, which is often.
Another time, he asked when my sis was coming over. This is the second time he has asked, last time he quipped that he would have to keep out of the way. Does it hold some significance for him?
When I asked him to give my regards to his friend in the other country, he said, will do, but I am sure you will see him, he comes to this country often during the summer. Hmmmmm? This friend has in fact invited me - in an open invitiation kind of way - to come spend time at his place when he comes to this country (he has a place here) but so far OW2 has always been there with H, so I have not. Maybe this summer?
When he left this morning, He gave D a hug, and then I went up to him and gave him a hug and a kiss on his cheek and wished him a good trip - nothing amorous, but hopefully loving, yet H hardly returned any of it. A depressed spouse may not want much physical contact, but I suppose a loving hug might be remembered, what do you think? Or is even that too pushy?
Basically, he was in rant, "I despise (fill in the blank)", "What's the use?" etc, mode all 48 hours. Exhausting and depressing. I tried not to get sucked in and stayed pleasant throughout. But the moment he left, I just sagged and had a cry. And then D played up for abit. I am tired of my 'dicipline problems' with her, I really am. But after the usual quota of drama, she is now quietly doing her homework.
Regarding money issues, while I listened to H and his rants, I feel I have had to claw my way to the position we are in right now, through lots of horrible times when we were coming to our separation agreement, and I am not happy to renegotiate away what I have established so far if H is not interested in working on our M. As long as D and I live in this country, we will need this place to live and this is where I will stay. As I have pointed out before, the irony is if we were together we would not be in financial trouble, but the expense of two households is burdensome. And while H can earn more, I am better in the money management department, and it would scare me to go back to having things 'out of control' again.
In spite of H's saying he has no money, he told me he has about 150 DVDs now, all purchased in the last year. That's got to cost a pretty penny, even if he buys cheap ones as often as he can, and often he orders them from amazon. He has taken up smoking since leaving me. He has bought lots of books. He orders expensive drinks in bars and cafés. I am trying to live within my means over at my end. Over Christmas I took D to see friends and relative over two weekends, it was the most I could afford, but even that meant paying for travel, presents and meals out. We haven't done anything the last two months really.
On Thursday, H drank a whole bottle of wine on his own, AND had a dry martini when he went to meet his friend. He tells me he never drinks these days, up at his place, never on his own. But at my place, he drinks my wine, even when I am not drinking anything myself!
He also turned up emptyhanded.
All I can say, is that with H, nothing has changed.
Typing all this out has alllowed me to stand back and detach a bit. I have my weekend out ahead of me - meeting a friend today, going for a walk with that older guy friend tomorrow - it gets me out of the house and clearing the head of obsesive thoughts. Next week a friend and I are going in her car to a big out of town superstore - and this woman asked me if I wanted to go with her, I didn't have to ask, so that's nice.
My kids' English class has come to a natural end, so I am happy about that. From now on I will not teach kids, it is not what I am good at and I find it too stressful, although I was getting along with them quite nicely of late. But kids' lessons require MUCH more preparation, so I won't be sorry to see them go. I might be cooking for some evening events put on by the local council in late March.
So, to sum up, you could say H is depressed, depressed, depressed. God knows if it is something specific that happened, or just pre-meeting nerves.
Oh, and it didn't help that I am having some bad hair days, as well as hosting two big spots on my face! Next week I am going to the hairdressers just before H's return. He has left some of his stuff here to be picked up then.
Oh, he told me he had been invited by his friend (local) to his birthday party last night, but H told him he would rather spend the evening with D. I had to quash the usual feeling of being slighted, that MY company is not anything to mention.
So, what say you guys? Is anything changing? Is it just the same old, same old cycle of depression for H?
Betsy, I know you aren't in favour of articial deadlines, but when I told H I would hold out till April, that was a way of letting HIM know I was human. I may still hold out past that in my heart of hearts, but I may also just test the waters out there and stop giving H much weight in my decisions. Perhaps he needs to feel what it is like when Livnlearn moves on, not just when he thinks HE is moving on? And with spring in the air, I think things will look up!
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
First, let me point out the positives (which, considering how very depressed he is, are quite remarkable):
Quote: So he eats a helping and says it is nice.
Quote: H sees me walking on foot (too snowy for the bike) and calls from the balcony, you should have called me to help you with that!
Quote: once when D was rude to me, H took it up with her and said that she was not to be rude to her mother, and really took her to task for it.
I know, may not seem like much, but coming from someone so depressed, it's not bad. He showed concern for you, stood up for you, complimented your cooking - all good.
Quote: Anyway, Friday I made a nice lunch - homemade pizza and H said it was very good. I had made enough to leave some for D at dinner time. But H picked at it throughout the day, and I had to tell him to please leave some for D. Stuff like this never seems to occur to H, he just helps himself. This is the narcissist in him.
Or this is the hungry man who has been eating his own cooking for too long. I wouldn't chastise him for stuff like this - these are the positive things you want him to remember about you, what a good cook you are, how kind you are, etc.
Quote: He said when he returns from his trip on Thursday, he was thinking of delaying his return till the Saturday, when he and D could get a lift up to his place with the landlord. I pointed out that THIS weekend was his (to have D), that he had specifically ASKED us to change around weekends earlier.
Another slip here - he's basically asking to spend a couple more days with you when he returns and you shoot him down based on a technicality of whose weekend it is? Let's remember, there's NO WAY right now he can say he wants to be with you, so he HAS to use D as an excuse.
Quote: he told me he had been invited by his friend (local) to his birthday party last night, but H told him he would rather spend the evening with D. I had to quash the usual feeling of being slighted, that MY company is not anything to mention.
See above.
Quote: So, to sum up, you could say H is depressed, depressed, depressed. God knows if it is something specific that happened, or just pre-meeting nerves.
I don't know, but I would take it as a positive that you think he was staying with OW1 before he came to your house, and he arrived in such a down mood - obviously he didn't have a great time if he was there
Be glad that he ISN'T with you right now - living with someone this depressed would be exhausting - use this time to keep working forward on your stuff, GAL, self-improvement - and hey, a little happiness would be okay too, right??? Then you will be better prepared to be a happy beacon of light for your poor lost H.
Slowly
H has always been arrogant, but it is much worse now. confused: