Thanks for your visit - hmmm, that might be one way to think of these OW. What sicken me is the fact that H wants them both as 'friends' even though both of them gave him the boot originally.
It sickenes me that he is over there right now 'talking' to OW1 even when his daughter is pleading for him to come stay over at our place.
I am sorely tempted to ring him to ask him if the 'talks' are still going OK?
This is of course sheer fantasy as I have my first certificate DBing principles!
I am very confused about going up to stay at his place for the first time even while he is building bridges with OW1. He evidently PREFERS to stay with her than me when in town. I suspect it could be in part a matter of simple convenience as she is right in the town centre.
H mentioned to D that he would be in town on Wednesday as he had some things to do, something to sign, so he would take her out to lunch. I wonder if he has got a new place to stay in town? I also suspect he is staying at OW1's place till Wednesday, because he kept emphasising that while tomorrow is a school holiday, it won't be for him (ie, he may be in town but not available). I am sorely tempted to ring him up at his place to see if he has returned there or not. But then I think, why confrim what I know, it is torture anyway even thinking about these things.
It is NOT as if he is really saying otherwise, all the things he says are feeble excuses to cover what he does, NOT declarations of the truth. When I asked him where he was staying the night on Saturday, he still felt guilty telling me he had 'made arrangements to stay with OW1' because he needed to talk to her, I could hear it in his voice, I could hear that he knew it was somehow wrong and sneaky. Or maybe he just knows how much this hurts me but he still can't help himself.
Can my H REALLY think that everything he has done is OK? Because we are 'legally separated', because he told me he didn't love me before doing all this? I DO think he has a conscience down there somewhere, hidden under all the other emotions he is feeling.
Does his guilty conscience make him feel that the pressure is coming from me? Will all this ever cease to be Livnlearn's fault in his mind?
I don't know.
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Quote: I am very confused about going up to stay at his place for the first time even while he is building bridges with OW1. He evidently PREFERS to stay with her than me when in town. I suspect it could be in part a matter of simple convenience as she is right in the town centre.
Just have to tell you - stop with the ASSuming. You don't know what's going on over there. Maybe it IS just a matter of convenience. Maybe H is breaking up with OW1 for the last time (funny she would have him there after her response to the email, isn't it?) - trying to clean things up in his life as well as his house before you come up there. Or maybe all of this is still part of his fantasy of remaining "friends' with everybody.
But whatever it is, I really doubt he is rekindling his R with OW1 - if he was, why would he be inviting you to his place next weekend?
So why not spend this week NOT WORRYING about what H is doing. Do for yourself. Live large. And approach next weekend with a beginner's mind. No expectations. High PMA. Look at it as a chance to show H your changes - and let HIM reveal himself to you.
There IS some kind of change in the air, so let's see where it goes.
And thanks for taking the trouble to post even though you have your hands full at the moment. Sorry I can't contribute much in the way of practical advice to you as I really don't know anything about the issues.
D is home all day today, and I spent quite some time with her helping her with homework and then talking about related stuff. I love spending 'quality time' (creepy term) with her, but I was a bit wound up in general and was snappy. I had to get a grip. Now I have got her tidying her room, which she is doing with enthusiasm (wow!!) before she goes off to play with her friend.
Life goes on...
...H just rang, to tell me he was coming down (that means he is up back home at is place?) on Wedensday, to do some stuff at one of the offices he deals with (something to do with taxes, no doubt) and did I want to go with him and D for lunch? I said, OK, if it doesn't clash with one of my lessons.
Livnlearn, the hard way!
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
My friend who came over on Saturday mentioned that she had bumped into my H when they had gone inot the hills for a trip, and that H really seemed middle aged. Which is ironic as H seems to be very concerned about the fact that he is 'nearly' fifty (he's forty five).
Since he started thinning on top years ago he has had a shaved or near shaved head. When clean shaven he looks quite young. Some years ago he started growing a quite cute goatie or at least a shaped beard. Since the bomb, more or less, he has had a full beard, which he keeps trimmed though. He has a LOT of white in his beard though, and it makes him look older, while his jaw line is still quite firm and he looks much younger clean shaven.
Then there's his since-the-bomb habit of smoking, which started out with cigars, went on to pipes and now seems to be mainly cigarettes.
And, funniest of all, he has purchased more than one walking stick! Not becuase he is old or disabled, far from it, he has to walk miles up and down hill most days just to get to the shops. But as a walking aid in the 'mountains'...
I think he might be in search of GRAVITAS.
He spoke of the memorial service he attended in terms of how many people had attended (there were many) and then said - not a bad 'achievement'...
I was directed to a site about narcissism by MicheleTW on In-Love-and-Hopeful-11's thread over in Hopefulness and it got me thinking.
I think my H has many traits of the PA Man as well as the Narcissist, but NOT ALL of them. The traits he does have are very strongly present, but he thankfully doesn't seem to posses some of the worst ones either. For example, I don't think H is without a conscience, but he does seem to lack empathy at very significant moments, although he is utterly sentimental at the same time. Interesting...
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Quote: think my H has many traits of the PA Man as well as the Narcissist, but NOT ALL of them. The traits he does have are very strongly present, but he thankfully doesn't seem to posses some of the worst ones either. For example, I don't think H is without a conscience, but he does seem to lack empathy at very significant moments,
Be careful making diagnoses based on hios current state - ALL WASs seem to resemble PA, and they all seem to lack empathy - but for most, it seems to be limited to the duration of their WAS craziness. I Now - if he was ALWAYS like this - that's different Ellie
I was thinking about H throughout the time I have known him, not just the last few years of hell.
Like I said, some (many) of the traits he strikingly has, but he doesn't have all of them, not even 90% of either PA or narcissist, so perhaps he is just a mixture like the rest of us??
Anyway, I am not sure if labeling is the way to go. Nothing is as clear cut as that in the end...
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
H rang last night to confirm that he was taking D out from school to lunch, and was I coming?
I said, probably, and that I would meet him outside the school, but that I had to be back after lunch pretty sharpish (true).
H said, slightly affronted, well, I too will be getting D back promptly.
I notice that H has felt free to be disimissive and casual with me the last nearly two years, but when ever I seem even a little 'busy', shall we say, he reacts.
Intersting.
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Hi LnL - Interesting observation that he reacts when you are busy - could it be because it is easier to deal with a woman who has priorities that are not dependent on him?
I'm finding the same with NG. The less available I am, the more quality time I get
I had an unremarkable lunch with H and D. I thought I would be a little late arriving at the school, so I tried to ring H on his cell phone to warn him, but it was not reachable. Now, if it had been the other way around, that he couldn't reach me, I would have got a long angry lecture about how I *never* have my phone on, blah blah blah. When I arrived just a little late, H was not there yet... When he turned up I said I had tried to contact him but couldn't, and he just said, oh, I left the phone at home! And I said, oh, back.
Lunch was fairly unremarkable - H started to tell a story with the facts all wrong, and I pointed out the impossibility of it... (like Wendy's H all over the place with his facts).
H was friendly enough, but distant. I observed him this lunch, like an experiment. He is so much the person he ever was - with his latest obsession de jour, his emphatic statements, his absolutism (yet he accuses me of being a perfectionist, which I am to a large extent)...
He showed off his new pipe.
He as usual kissed me goodbye, this time in his 'controlling' way - gripping me firmly by the shoulders and planting his lips well away from my mouth, nearer my ear. I use his kissing technique as a temperature check ! H was DISTANT today!!
As D dawdled on the way back, I said briskly, I have to run, I'll be off now, see ya! And was off.
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Quote: H started to tell a story with the facts all wrong, and I pointed out the impossibility of it...
How unfortunate to run out of duct tape right in the middle of a meal! If you want closeness from H, you can't push him away with pronouncements of "You're wrong!" just for the heck of it. I have an extremely hard time doing this, but we need to focus on the feelings, NOT the facts. Whatever it was, H was sharing something with you. That is an attempt at closeness.
It's good to be able to sit back and observe. What can you do to bring some loving attitude to that detachment?
