Quote: Re drinking: what is a normal amount for him? Since you know what his typical drunk behavior is, does he have some history of alcohol abuse?
I would say he averages 3 beers a day with some variation. He might not drink a couple nights and he might have a whole 6 pack a couple nights. He can quit drinking but he usually has to substitute some other behavior, for instance he once substituted the habit of eating a pint of Ben and Jerry's every evening.
He has some sort of problem. I don't know if it is depression, alcoholism or just being an anxious, uptight PITA. Whatever you call it he displays bad short-circuit reactions to emotional AND physical discomfort. His father and his two sisters are just like him in this way. There is no way for two of them to be in the same room at the same time without either alcohol consumption or intense crabbiness resulting. They are all hypoglycemic too, so if dinner is served late at a family gathering it is an ugly thing to behold. When my one sister-in-law got married for the third time a few years ago, I couldn't keep myself from saying semi-jokingly to my new BIL "Let me give you my e-mail address so you can join the support group for current and past spouses of (my H's surname)'s.".
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: So if he asks you, What's up? instead of replying as RLT suggests above, you might say something like: "I'm spending some time going inside and trying to understand my own sexuality." That way you are totally detached and haven't done one of those teeny hole-biting things that I described on FF's thread.
That's good. I could also say "I am trying to figure out how I can be more self-respecting in my sexuality". Making it about me is actually more true since my goal in changing my behavior and strengthening my boundaries in this regard is to better insure my own happiness. He is free to choose how he responds to the new me.
Thanks this really helps me think about it clearly. I am not trying to be manipulative by demanding more respect. I am trying to make myself a better person. If my H is able to respond in kind it will be because he is becoming a better person too, but that is totally up to him.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
The other good thing about this is I think I had a sort of semi-conscious plan to spend some celibate time thinking about relationships and my sexuality if my relationship with my H ended. If instead I do it before the relationship is over, it might help save the relationship. Sort of analogous to my sisters comment that people always lose weight after they divorce. It was harder but more productive for me to lose it while I was still married to a man who was telling me I was too fat.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Boundaries can be very confusing. Boundaries are not something you 'set on' another person. Boundaries are about yourself.
"You cannot treat me this way anymore."
This is not a boundary. This is an attempt to control someone else's behavior. It is an unenforcable demand.
"If you speak to me that way, I will walk out of the room."
This is a boundary and is completely enforceable because it is about you.
Boundaries are not set to define another person. Boundaries are set to define what goes on with you.
You also must set a definable consequence.
"I will not continue to live in a sexless relationship."
This is a boundary. You control the enforcement. The consequence is, you will kick your H out of the house in X amount of time if he continues to treat you in such a manner. The consequence defines the boundary. When X amount of time passes, and he has not changed, you kick his butt out.
Nowhere are you defining how he must act, nor how quickly. Everything that is defined here is about YOU.
Sometimes spouses need severe consequences like separation. Others need less severe ones, like:
- Cancelling a credit card
- Leaving for the party alone when the perpetually late partner doesn't come home by the agreed upon departure time.
- Going aheand and eating dinner when a spouse is late for the thousandth time
- Ending an abusive conversation
- Refusing to bail someone out of a jam because of perpetual irresponsibility, like overspending or not completing work on time.
When he threw his temper tantrum, you should have got up and left. Not because you were afraid or not, but because it is disrepectful behavior. Getting up and leaving is about YOU not the other person.
If sex comes up, you can say: "I love you, but I don't trust you. I can't be that close to you until we work this (trust issue) out."
"When you can participate in an intimate relationship with me, we can be close again."
Sex does not bring intimacy. Intimacy brings sex.
Boundaries are only built and established in the context of relationship. To run from a relationship as the first step of boundaries (like your H is trying to do) is not to have boundaries at all. It is a defense against developing boundaries with another person. The only place boundaries are real is within relationship.
Remember, it is an act of love to allow your spouse to reap the effects of his selfishness or irresponsibility -- unless you are acting out of revenge. When you set and keep boundaries with your spouse, you are saying "I may love you, but I'm not paying for your problems."
Refusing to rescue your spouse, such as by becoming something you are not, refusing to cheer him up when his is pouting, sacrificing to pay off his credit card bill -- helps keep the problem with him.
We are responsible to one another when we marry. We care how we affect our spouse. If one spouse feels no sense of responsibility to the other, this spouse is, in effect, trying to live a married live as a single person. On the other hand, you can't cross the line of responsibility. You need to avoid taking ownership for your mate's life. We are responsible to each other, but not for each other.
If you find yourself asking... "how can I get my spouse to do... XXX" you know it is a power play. This is not a boundary. Spouses have choices. You have the choice to make of what you will and will not tolerate. How (and if) your H decides to address the issue is up to them.
Your H has issues. Don't get sucked into them by playing his game of, "if you did it this way, I'd be turned on... if you looked that way, I'd be turned on..." He is attempting to control you.
You cooking hims dinner without fail is control on your part, did you know? He is a big boy. You are not responsible for his full belly. If you want to cook, cook. If you don't, he can figure it out. Really. The fact that you don't allow him to figure it out on his own is your attempt to keep him dependent on you... maybe even to reward you for a job well done.
It's tough, honey. Most of this stuff I just typed came out of a book called, "Boundaries in Marriage," by Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend. Buy it or borrow it from the library. It is a little heavy on the relgious side, but the messages and principles it contains are spot on.
FYI, when I said the other day that it would be more loving of me to leave my spouse because I'm afraid he'll never be happy in a sexual relationship with me... that was complete and utter garbage, and I was in the midst of a full-blow pity party because I felt so overwhelmed. Please disregard.
It is far more loving for me to get my ass in gear and try my very best, always, or die trying in the process.
Thanks, Corri, for sharing that. As usual, damn good advice
Quote: FYI, when I said the other day that it would be more loving of me to leave my spouse because I'm afraid he'll never be happy in a sexual relationship with me... that was complete and utter garbage, and I was in the midst of a full-blow pity party because I felt so overwhelmed. Please disregard.
If you didn't feel that way once in a while, we might start to wonder whether or not you're human. I loved the description of your throne, by the way. I hope your prince realizes just how lucky he is.
-------------- Boundaries are not set to define another person. Boundaries are set to define what goes on with you.
You also must set a definable consequence.
(consequence) so true. Without them all of the rules in the world are useless. One of the main things the grouphome employees brought up everytime someone talked about what the resident boys "should do" got changed to how do we get them to do it, and if they do not do it, what is the consequence. Try positive reinforcement first. If that does not work, then go to consequences. Carrot and stick works best most of the time, (if appropriate).
Corri, Can you go to Finland and get in Mr.FF's face and straighten him out? TV "Wife Swap" type of thing. Boy, that was a good post.
"I will not continue to live in a sexless relationship."
This is a boundary. You control the enforcement. The consequence is, you will kick your H out of the house in X amount of time if he continues to treat you in such a manner. The consequence defines the boundary. When X amount of time passes, and he has not changed, you kick his butt out.
Nowhere are you defining how he must act, nor how quickly. Everything that is defined here is about YOU.
So, what is the difference between a boundary (good) and an ultimatum (bad)? What if I were to say "I will not continue to live in a marriage in which I don't have sex at least twice a week unless there is a true emergency. If I find myself to still be in a marriage in which this is not happening on March 21st, I will ask you to start looking for your own apartment".
Of course, I would have to add "I will not have sex with anyone who treats me with disrespect, so disrespectful attempts to have sex with me will fail and therefore will not count towards the twice weekly sex I require."
Do I get a gold star or the dunce cap in Boundaries 101?
Quote: FYI, when I said the other day that it would be more loving of me to leave my spouse because I'm afraid he'll never be happy in a sexual relationship with me... that was complete and utter garbage, and I was in the midst of a full-blow pity party because I felt so overwhelmed. Please disregard.
Yeah, I know. That's why I pointed out to you that my H was thinking that way. You are a brave, brave soul to stay on this BB where you must have to keep telling yourself "Not all LD's are the same. Not all LD's are the same." when confronted with the tales of my H or Ms.HD.
BTW- I was thinking about your posts about having sex when you're in the mood vs. not in the mood. Believe it or not, I am sometimes not in the mood and sometimes my H approaches me when I'm not in the mood. So, I was trying to figure out what I did to get myself in the mood on those occasions and I realized I usually just sort of automatically make myself think about one aspect of sex that I particularly enjoy. Usually for me this would be breast stimulation or my latest fantasy activity. The analogy for this would be if I wasn't particularly hungry or thinking about food and my H approached me and asked if I wanted to go out to eat. I would sort of automatically scan the menus of local restaurants in my mind until I came up with something that seemed tasty even though I wasn't particularly hungry. So on a high sex drive day I would say "Yeah. I'm starving. I don't care where we eat. Slurpees and hotdogs from the 7-11 sounds great.". On a low sex drive day I would say "Okay, but would it be alright if we went to Cafe X because they have that salad I really like.". I guess I'm giving you this info because I feel like this is something I am in the mental habit of doing that doesn't have anything to do with hormone levels kind of the equivalent of how a runner psychs herself up for a race.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Well, it's my 40th birthday. Several monthes ago I vowed that I would have sex on my 40th birthday. I have been considering how I can keep this vow given that I can't count on my LDH to initiate sex and I don't think I want to have sex with him even if he does due to his recent disrespectful comments regarding my appearance and lack of sexiness. Since I am also loathe to go to the biker bar as an alternative sex source, I have decided that the best way that I can honor my vow to myself to be sexual on my 40th birthday is by writing a fantastic work of erotica. When it is complete, I will post it on an appropriate site and give you guys the link.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO ME!
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
JJ, Now that's a creative solution anyone would look forward to. Question for you.Over in my sitch (Thread for TAGIII) I described yesterday's meltdown.As I watch the tirade I try to proces what I'm hearing and validate W's feelings. I'm getting better but not great. Many times she comments "I don't want to hear any psycological BS." My guess and the guess of our C is W has created a comfortable story and by me not retaliating cognitive discidence is entering in and W can't process it. I figure that she process my empathy rather than her expected rage from me. Here's the question. During the tirade she always gets to the accusation that I don't think she's beautiful because sometime in the past on TV I made a comment about how some babe was endowed. The comeent was more directed as a "how can the y put that on TV" and not a shot across my W's bow. When she's ranting about this I'm aroused by her, always have been. I make an effort for a kiss or a hug but NFW. Any thoughts? TAGIII
I loved the description of your throne, by the way. I hope your prince realizes just how lucky he is. 