I don't know Jenny...maybe I have my 'bad guy' antennae on, but anyone who throws a fit like that in front of you - punching a hole in a dry wall...and then tells you he needs you to be sluttier in front of him???? (and especially since we know, unless you've been leading us on for the past 6mos or so, which I don't believe for a minute) leads me to say two things -
This guys got lots of testosterone floating around in there, and He sounds like he's wound real tight right now.
I don't think my H could do that. Throw himself on the floor, scream at us, yes. Break a wall? I don't think he has it in him.
I'm no expert, by any means, but it does sound like H has anger issues that have nothing to do with you, and that you shouldn't mess with. Not to mention that he's throwing confusing messages out at you, which you can't possibly live up to, or even understand.
Is this new, or has he done things like this before?
But - what would he do if you just stopped talking about this, if you just dropped the whole thing and lived your own life, sort of ignored H and his tantrums?
Quote: BTW- He also told me that I am exacerbating the problem by belonging to this BB because talking about our sex problem probably makes me more HD.
Ok here we go on this one
JJ I really don't think that your H has revealed everything to you. You may think so and it shows that you want to believe it but as I read your posts I see him simply tring to control you thru various forms of pyschological manipulation.
A form he is definitely using is DETACHTMENT (Thank-you SD for the word that was at the tip of my tongue) Detachment is simple to describe and varies incredibly in strengths and usage. It can be as simple as who averts the eyes first when you lock eyes across a room to things like your H seems to be doing to you and then worse(hell, you can even use it when buying a car). It is very difficult for a true HSD to use as a sexual tool and unfortunately they are very easy to be controlled.
Women traditionally have used this in the form of "Playing Hard to Get". If they know a man is interested they will let him get close and then back off leaving him with a desire for more. If you repeat this a few times the desire becomes more intense. Every few times they raise the stakes by letting him get closer still before they back off again. If this continues without the stakes being raised then he will become bored and the desire will diminish.
A man will happily perform his end of the game called "The Chase" which by the way most men enjoy. They are frustrated by it but they still enjoy it.
While I don't know exactly what benefits your H is getting from this I think some of it could be: Work only when he feels like it or absolutely needs to Meals provided as desired Clothing washed and folded (Does he refold it everytime or only if you begin to show signs of complaining) Sex whenever, wherever, darn near however he wants A cool feeling of power as he watches you perform exactly as he planned A clean house ?????....
Now he has told you that this BB is a problem that must go. His reason for wanting it gone is that you are not acting according to plan after you read answers to your posts. He may have been changing his tactics to accommodate for it but you have been changing faster than he expected. The stakes are getting high and he wants to get back better control.
I don't think your H is evil or inherently mean. He just wants himself to be comfortable and using you is a means to an end. He probably does have a true feeling of love for you. He is definitely doing this with intent because its become alot heavier than simply his nature.
If you agree then you should not confront him directly with this.
Just observe and be aware of what your reactions are.
PS He demanded 20lbs more, you went to the gym and exercised twice as hard. No matter how you reasoned it out in your head you did exactly what he had planned.
Quote: If I was in a position where I had nothing to lose, I'd probably push for an open marriage, swinging or trip to a sex club...I'd take the sexuality up a notch instead of down. Crap, who knows, maybe my W might tap into something that turned her on...or maybe not...whatever.
You crack me up. However, your little fantasy did make me think of something interesting. Theoretically I am the HD spouse but if I were to suggest, for instance, that we could have a three-some with another woman, I would be doing it to please my H. My H's LD is the LD of a finicky eater not the LD of someone with simply little appetite.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: Ask your H to name a scene in a movie that he thinks is sexy. Also ask him to name an actress about your build and age with a hair style he likes so you have clues as to what H "thinks is attractive and sexy.
The interesting thing is that when I watch TV with my H, he constantly makes comments about how unattractive various items of clothing and hairstyles look on the women on TV. He is always saying things like "She looks like an alien" or "That is a horrendous sweater.". He insults men on TV too. I can't remember if he ever pointed out an actress as being attractive. The closest he's come that I can remember is he said he had a crush on Dorothy Hamill when he was a kid. I am NOT the same type as Dorothy Hamill.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Unfortunately, I think there is probably some truth in what you suggest. However, I would say that in my H's case he uses "detachment" because he generally feels too weak, not in order to give himself some sense of being very powerful. The reason why I think you may be right is that I see my H's LSD as just one part of a general trend in his behavior toward me which I would generally characterize as "emotionally withholding". The most blatant example of this which I have mentioned on the BB is the fact that he wouldn't give me a hug after my father died. Other examples would be not replying when I speak to him, not expressing his love verbally, not returning simple signs of affection like hugs, not wanting to see a movie simply because I indicated that I did want to see it etc. etc.
My H experiences life with a lot of anxiety and discomfort so it is in his interest to have a brave, servile dog-like companion he can count on. Your analogy strikes me as very apt in that one of the main things I used to do that made me feel like I was losing my sense of self in our relationship was I used to "fetch" bottles of beer for him. I knew I would be "punished" if I didn't keep beer stocked in the refridgerator and I hoped I might be "rewarded" if I brought him one along with his dinner which I fixed just to his liking. The other thing that makes me think you might be right is the fact that I am afraid to stop cooking for him. I am afraid to do this even though we've both been talking about divorce. I'm not even sure what I fear will happen if I stop cooking for him.
Another thing that makes me think you might be right is that I feel very free when he's not around, more like I can be myself and do what I want to do.
The final thing that makes me feel like you might be right is the fact that I think if I really controlled my sex drive and made it clear to him that I thought we shouldn't have sex for a while, he would probably throw a fit because he wants to have sex when he wants to have sex.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I think that if you and H kept along the same path as you were going, you would be a WAW in a few yrs from now.
It's symbolic that everything is coming to a head on your 40th birthday. It's time to put you and your sense of self back into the picture. It's not fun watching your H's reactions to your changes, even from the distance of the BB because we have all been there, in some form. It's time for him to grow up. He is acting like a scared but stubborn child. It's also time for you to be the one to detach from his responses and take care of yourself. Some people need the wake up call of separation/divorce to change. Hang in there.
The weird thing is I didn't really have much of an emotional reaction to my H throwing his wall-breaking tantrum. I've been thinking about this and it makes me recall that I was always "good" at handling temper tantrums when my kids had them too.
It brought to mind a thought that I've had previously and mentioned on the BB. I don't know if it's conscious or unconscious or just my own imagination, but on some level I think my H withholds sex and other things I need emotionally from me because he is too civilized to hit me in order to control my behavior. Besides, he knows that if he hit me I'd be out the door and never looking back. The question is why wasn't I out the door and never looking back when he did something as emotionally damaging as not hugging me when my father died. I'm not sure but I think it has something to do with the fact that I don't have a simple rule in my head to deal with that sort of behavior like I do when it comes to physically hurtful behavior. I think the changes I have to make within myself involve constructing these sort of emotional rules or boundaries for myself in this relationship or any I might have in the future. I have to figure out when I'm not being treated with enough kindness or respect and how best to demand the treatment I deserve. If I can't be LD for sex, I need to learn how to become LD for a particular sexual relationship if my physical or emotional needs are not being met within it.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: I think that if you and H kept along the same path as you were going, you would be a WAW in a few yrs from now.
I know it. I told my sister last spring that I gave my marriage a 50/50 chance of lasting through the summer.
Quote: It's symbolic that everything is coming to a head on your 40th birthday.
Yeah. I'm trying to figure out how I can keep the vow I made to myself that I would get laid on my 40th bday. I am absolutely disinclined to have sex with my H even if he decides that the fact that I don't want it is making him horny. Perhaps, I should say I am disinclined to have sex with my H BECAUSE it would probably be the fact that I am disinclined that would make him horny.
Quote: Some people need the wake up call of separation/divorce to change.
I think this is true and that is why I am strongly considering joining Barney and at least sexually separating myself from my H at this juncture. I need to clear my head and figure out to what extent our problems really are about biologically low sex drive and to what extent they are about control. I guess what I'm thinking is I need to practice a little self-control in order to stop feeling like I'm allowing my H to control me. Does this make sense?
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: I need to clear my head and figure out to what extent our problems really are about biologically low sex drive and to what extent they are about control. I guess what I'm thinking is I need to practice a little self-control in order to stop feeling like I'm allowing my H to control me. Does this make sense?
I think that's a good idea. H has the cheese. By changing his demands and being nebulous about them he is moving the cheese. This is his way of getting you to run around the maze while he avoids confronting his own issues. And boy, does he have issues.
I think he feels the need to be mothered. It's no wonder there is so much difficulty having a mutual relationship. He needs you to take care of him, like you are his mommy - when you try to tell him what you need, he feels like you are scolding him, like you are his mommy.
I've always been the kind of person to confound sex and love. I wouldn't ML with him right now simply because you're just not in a very loving place. Before you ML with him, ask yourself what he has done lately to make you feel loved.
SM
"If we will be quiet and ready enough, we shall find compensation in every disappointment." Henry David Thoreau
