Initiation and Pursuit

[honeypot]

Yes it is a copout. I never intended to suggest otherwise. I would guess that Dave has figured this out by now.

As far as the desire, I was only going off of what he has posted here before. He seems to be very tolerant and accepting and happy of any positive changes she attempts to make. Perhaps he is overstating his benevolence, who knows.
But if there is NEVER any remark that she wants sex, for herself and because she wants him, and ALL the remarks are in the "let's do this so you don't get crabby" vein, then he will have no reason to believe that she desires him.

And, quite honestly, I do want my H to show his desire in a certain way--we all have preferences. But I no longer hold that out as a requirement. If he is willing to own his sexual urges and communicate them to me in a way that leaves no room for misunderstanding, then I will accept it graciously. (what he used to do in the past was throw out a well-camoflaged "maybe it is and maybe it isn't" signal and then let me be the one to drag it out of him, while he acted like my Sexual Savior. yuck!)

And, you know, the only reason I would even suggest that she is wrong is because he has asked her to not do this and she continues with it anyway.

There has to be SOME forward movement in order for him to keep his goodwill flowing towards this aspect of their sex life.

[honeypot]

"I just want to take you upstairs and f your brains out". She almost responds better to the second one. It's weird.

Why is this weird?

I think she is sharing her preferences with you.

Does this kind of interaction turn you on, also?

Do you find it intimidating to be aggressive?
I ask because my husband has said that he THINKS those I just want to F you thoughts but doesn't ever say it because then he is obligated to follow through with aggressive foreplay and "taking" me and all that. That is where it breaks down for him--he's not comfy with THAT role, although he sure does like to just F me, and dispense with all the other fluff.

HP

[NotATLDave]

But if there is NEVER any remark that she wants sex, for herself and because she wants him, and ALL the remarks are in the "let's do this so you don't get crabby" vein, then he will have no reason to believe that she desires him.

It's been a while since she has done one of these. I no longer get crabby and she really hasn't been that mechanical lately...I need to give her some credit. I was just in a funky mood when I posted this.

And, you know, the only reason I would even suggest that she is wrong is because he has asked her to not do this and she continues with it anyway.

I'm fairly certain she can learn...and I'm not one to silently accept it the way it is. ;-) On that same note, we've learned to talk about these issues much better than we used to too. It's now downright peaceful.

[NotATLDave]

BTW.

For all the folks who just joined the board recently and are thinking..."who is this AtlDave guy?" I started posting here last year and have made tremendous strides since. I stopped posting this summer when I found a great new shrink. But I've been bored lately so I started back the other night.

This post is about my goals to fine-tune things; which is what '05 is going to be all about.

[honeypot]

Good for you, Dave.

I am at the peaceful Sex Talk stage myself. It is a nice place to be!
They aren't always peaceful as we are discussing..but they are respectful...and the resolution begins almost even before we are through with the talk. That is amazing to me.

[CeMar]

Honeypot:

A need to feel sexually desirable to our mate is NOT an unrealistic expectation. And just because she has made strides in other areas does not get her off the hook in this one.

Yes it is unrealistic, or so I have been told.

[Corri]

HD:

Of course it was a joke. I should have known better than to joke with you so soon after justlvn pulled a corri on you.

Thanks, that was very sweet.

You know, when my wife was criticizing me last night for feeling energized after leaving the counselors, rather than feeling "beat up," I actually thought to myself, "hmmm, about the only time I feel 'beat up' is after one of Corri's reamings of me." Just wanted to let you know that, at least by my W's standards, you are an effective counselor.

ROTFLOL!!!! Can you FEEL the LOVE, can you just FEEL THE LOVE pouring out at Corri today? Shew-weeee!!!!! I'm going to take that as a left-handed compliment and go have a beer!! No hot tub at the Corri abode. Hmmm.... think I'll get one for my H for his bday....

Sweety, some of the most amazing insights have hit me after I got pummeled by my shrink. And there were days I left feeling like I was walking on clouds, too. It was always easier to take the beatings because I had the good days, too. I knew my shrink had my best interests at heart, even if it didn't necessarily feel like it.

And I can tell you... a face full of Corri ain't NOTHING compared to what my shrink used to deal out....(shudder)... Camp Not So Fun....

Corri, who luvs everyone here, even when I get pummeled (and misspell words).

[Corri]

AD:

I'm going to guess that you are feeling a bit guilty of your behavior in SF. Separate that from the issues with your wife. Look, you didn't commit murder, you didn't sleep with anyone (right?)... your self-esteem was not at its peek, and you probably did some things you wouldn't necessarily want the W to know about, but certainly nothing that would have you committed to Death Row. There is something you need to learn about yourself from the sitch, and you'll get it. I"m not so sure it has anything to do with your wife or the state of your R, but is solely a Dave issue. I've been in that boat. Give it some thought. Talk to the shrink.

but you know me, I have never been one to tell anyone what I want

Seems to me she has something to discuss with the C then, hm?

In light of the progress we have made, I just felt compelled to post how her perception of what "initiation" is is a little bit off.

And what was that motivating force? If you are doing what you feel you need to do to address the sitch., why post it? You don't have to answer me, just think about it.

But the ownership of her sexuality hasn't even come up on the radar despite the C telling her point blank "Dave needs to see you own your sexuality".

Then you two have something to discuss with the C. Don't let her off the hook.

Sorry if I came across rather harsh today. I really can't help but think that your guilt led you to tear into your W. You handled the situation well with her lame initiation, yet you didn't mention it. You wanted to heap on her head. Which is fine. We all do that. If I am wrong, I apologize. If I'm not, just think about it so you can work with your C to put whatever demons are eating at you to rest.

Corri

[NotATLDave]

wow...

thanks Corri.

I'm not feeling too guilty because I didn't sleep with anyone and my desire to "experiement with singlehood" was simply that...an experiment to see if I could get some validation as my esteem is sort of low for some unknown reason...thank goodness I have a C. It's probably due to an extended visit to my mom's house in late Nov. who knows.

And what was that motivating force? If you are doing what you feel you need to do to address the sitch., why post it? You don't have to answer me, just think about it.

Funny...I was asking myself that this morning. I think my frustration with her came to a head with our confrontation. Sure I confronted her immediately but the feelings lingered. She heard what I said, repeated it back so I was certain that she heard me.

But the real issue isn't her initiation style. It's that I'll say..."I've yet to see you initiate in the past 2 months" her response is "I asked last night if you are coming to bed". Either she is grabbing at straws, OR, in her mind, she was wanting me to come up for sex but communicating it in a way that doesn't convey it.

SO...remember my daughter's song - dum dum dum dum dum dum dum dum ? Recognize it? Sound familiar? Here, I'll refresh all you folks on this story. For our anniversary, my D6 wrote the dum-dums above on a card and gave it to me. It's the Wedding March song. In her mind, she was hearing the song and transcribing what she heard. So...given that example of the fruit not falling far from the tree....

Can you recognize the difference between these 2 questions....

"Are you coming to bed?"

-and-

"Are you coming to bed?"

My W was thinking about sex during the first one, no wait...the second, no the first...hmmm. Do you folks get my point? This quality of hers has been exposed on numerous occasions now that we use active listening. She "thinks" one thing but says another and then assumes that the person heard what she was actually thinking. She used to always yell at me "you are not listening to me...you aren't getting it". That's our cue to enter "active listening mode" (for geeks on this board, it's like switching from UDP to TCP (damn I'm geeky)).

The good news is that we know how to discuss it now. I bet this is what is happening. If it's not, and she's truly trying to BS me, a convo about this will push her closer to a crucible.

Sorry if I came across rather harsh today. I really can't help but think that your guilt led you to tear into your W. You handled the situation well with her lame initiation, yet you didn't mention it. You wanted to heap on her head. Which is fine. We all do that. If I am wrong, I apologize. If I'm not, just think about it so you can work with your C to put whatever demons are eating at you to rest.

I'm not feeling too guilty...it was a good experience to draw out the opinion of one of the women we were with that night. She gave me an ass-kicking of Corri proportions. I was actually thinking about you Corri alot that night because this one woman reminded me a lot of you (or whatever it is I think of you).

And I can tell you... a face full of Corri ain't NOTHING compared to what my shrink used to deal out....(shudder)...

Mmmm.....a face full o' Corri

[honeypot]

Dave,
I think you'll know when she is truly starting to own her sexuality. Not that you should monitor her or anything but I meant regarding the question of "are you coming to bed?".

You could sit around forever pondering what she really meant but I think when the time arrives that she really wants to own it and be sexual with you, you'll know. You will recognize it.
My H is still not what you'd call a smooth operator, but he has stretched himself more in the last couple months than he has in our entire marriage. It is quite a turn on both because he's showing desire and because I love him so much and it feels so amazing to have him do something that I know is hard for him--just because he knows I need it.

My point is that I spent a lot of time analyzing whether he knew what he was saying or not (never really did figure it out) but when it was for real, I saw it and recognized it immediately.

I hope things continue to go well for you, Dave!

HP